July 16th, 2007
Global warming and CO2 emissions are two issues we now confront on a daily basis.
We’re all aware of the problem, but has this influenced your choice of car or transport?
If you were in the market for a diesel powered car five years ago, it was slim pickings. At the time, European stalwarts Citroen, Mercedes-Benz and Peugeot could help you, but petrol-hybrid cars were almost non-existent on our shores.
Today almost every manufacturer offers a diesel variant, from economy priced to luxury, while Honda, Lexus and Toyota all have hybrids in their line-up.
However, manufacturers have not eliminated petrol models from their range entirely – petrol powered cars still sell the most units by far. Perhaps we’re not as concerned about our car’s ‘carbon footprint’ as the media would have us believe.
With so much on offer, have you made the switch from petrol to diesel or hybrid power, and what has the experience taught you?
Or do you still have your petrol car, with no intention of switching to an alternative?
How much is your decision guided by financial or environmental reasons?
Or have you dispensed with a car altogether?
Related posts:
I own a 3.0 L intercooled turbo diesel powered Rodeo 4WD Ute which does 9L /100 km easily and which never blows smoke. It does not produce the smelly exhaust of modern petrol engines either. I am dissapointed that the NSW price for diesel is higher than petrol whereas in other states it is often the reverse. When visiting Sydney or driving across it to get to Qld, I never fill up in Sydney as many of the servos there either do not sell diesel or are badly set up for diesel users. In rural Australia diesel is avaiable everywhere.
I was looking around for a replacement for our Mercedes 190E, a car with the same comfort level and size . finished up buying a second hand Peugeot 406 HDI manual which has the best seats we have experienced.The diesel is great to drive , in cruise control it eats the hills on the higway but needs are little experience to addapt to the turbo i.e. keeping the revs up above 1500 rpm and changing down on the overrun as it idles at about 900 rpm. Economy, like Julie we get about 1300 km on a 70 litre tank full. Best checked milage was Albury to Sydney and return via Canberra with about 10 litres still on board i.e. 4.8 litres/100kms.
Usually average 5.2- 5.6 on a mix of highway and town running.
This will probably be the last car I buy so am looking for this to last for a few years. Considered a Toyota Prius but no one could tell the projected battery life or the cost of replacement.
1. My vehicle
I have a 2001 AU11 Ford LTD V8 sedan which I had converted to liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) in August 2006.
2. Cost of conversion
Installation took 2 days and cost $2,600. After deducting the government grant of $2,000, the net cost was $600.
3. Background
I prefer a big car due to my height and I like to drive a V8. Soaring petrol prices presented a dilemma – downsize to a smaller car to cut fuel costs or keep paying increasing petrol prices which for me, was very hard to justify, given that I am retired and travel mainly locally in the Sydney area. Converting to LPG offered a possible solution as I could cut fuel costs and keep my V8 LTD and as a bonus, at the same time contribute to the reduction of greenhouse gases.
4. The result
I am extremely happy with the result. I have substantially cut fuel costs with no discernible loss in engine performance. Fortunately the LTD has a large boot, so the 68 litre LPG tank fitted neatly under the back seat sill area without protruding into the open boot area, so I still have a quite adequate boot available. The 68 litre petrol tank is retained which, when coupled with the LPG tank, substantially increases the vehicle’s range.
5. Conversion kit used
A MED vapour LPG kit (Airod) was installed together with a 68 litre Manchester LPG tank. See http://www.medauto.com.au
6. How it works
I can start the car on LPG or petrol selecting either by the press of a switch – red LED for petrol and yellow LED for LPG. In my case if starting on LPG I have to rev the motor for the LPG to cut in. When the LPG tank is full, 1 yellow and 5 green LEDs glow. As gas is used the number of LEDs diminishes until there is only the yellow LED glowing. When this happens, it’s time to either refill the LPG tank or switch over to petrol.
7. Myths (from my experience and understanding)
i. There are no engine backfires
ii. There is no smell of gas
iii. LPG tanks are quite safe being double skinned steel. Petrol tanks are plastic.
iv. There is no discernible loss of engine performance
v. Filling up is easy and similar to petrol except that you screw the nozzle from the LPG bowser onto the LPG filler, which is located inside the fuel flap beside the existing petrol cap.
vi. I checked with Ford Melbourne and was advised that the extended warranty was not voided (which the dealer told me it would be). The LPG kit or damaged due to LPG naturally is not covered. It is claimed that LPG is actually beneficial for the engine resulting in less engine wear and longer life for spark plugs.
vii. LPG is manufactured during refining of crude oil, or extracted from oil or gas streams as they emerge from the ground; in past years it was wasted.
Contrary to popular belief, diesel produces more greenhouse gas than LPG, it is also more expensive.
8. Downside
Very minor when you get used to it, but …..
i. When starting the car, I have to rev the motor for the LPG to take over from petrol (not a big deal)
ii. It is difficult to know when the LPG is about to run out as there is no accurate fuel gauge visible to the driver (there is one on the tank). If the LPG cuts out while you are driving, the engine “hesitates” momentarily, before automatically switching to petrol. This is a bit of a safety issue, particularly if it happens at a crucial time, such as turning in front of oncoming traffic. A couple of times the car has stalled completely and this is obviously unacceptable. The answer at this point in time is to fill up the LPG tank or switch to petrol when the LPG indicator shows only the yellow LED.
9. Comparison of running costs between LPG and petrol
For interest sake, I have kept accurate records of the cost of LPG and what the cost would have been for unleaded petrol (ULP) based on litres per 100 kilometres travelled both for city and highway driving. I have used the price per litre for ULP at our local servo on the same day as I fill up with LPG. Being a Budget outlet, on average ULP is probably a bit cheaper here than most servos.
Based on my records (remembering my car is a V8), I ascertained that for city running, LPG was approximately 77% as efficient as ULP. Surprisingly, for highway driving, there was virtually no difference between ULP and LPG. For city driving LPG consumption was 22 to 25 litres per 100 kilometres and for highway driving, 13 to 16 litres per 100 kilometres.
In straight dollar terms, 68 litres of LPG at say 50c per litre costs $34.00. For 68 litres of ULP at say $1.20 per litre, the cost is $81.60, resulting in a saving per tank of about $47.60 for highway driving. For city driving at 77% efficiency, the cost difference reduces to $28.83 – still a considerable saving per tank of LPG.
Over about 8,000 kilometres of predominately city plus some highway driving, the saving has been –
i. Straight dollars – $1,250
ii. LPG 77% efficiency – $845
Given the cost of installation was a net $600, the LPG saving has already paid for itself.
(Don’t try and check these calculation as you haven’t got all the figures)
10. Finally
BP issues a card for use at some of its outlets, where 2c per litre discount on LPG can be claimed. Woolworths (Caltex) and Coles (Shell) both offer 4c per litre discount on fuel purchased at participating service stations for minimum spends of $30 at their stores. Coles can be up to 6cper litre. IGA offers 4c per litre discount on groceries on production of a fuel docket irrespective of where the fuel was purchased.
The government grant can be claimed by completing a form and submitting it with proof of payment and a certificate from an accredited LPG installer to any Medicare or Centrelink office or by posting to the LPG Claim Processing Unit GPO Box 1536 Adelaide SA 5001.
The vehicle’s registration papers have to be endorsed by the RTA to say that LPG has been installed. There is no charge for this and no increase in rego fees.
The Insurer of the vehicle should be advised of the installation so the policy can be endorsed – again no cost is involved.
The LPG installer will attach a small red “LPG” sticker to the number plates; probably to alert emergency services should the vehicle be involved in an accident.
11. In retrospect, would I do the same thing again?
Definitely.
I recently went through the throws of wether to convery my existing vehicle to LPG or buy a new diesel.
The diesel option looked good with the ecomomy etc but even though they have fap filters to cut the photochemical smog the still need fuel to burn off the collected particles, producing non visable carbon particles which are still injurious to your health.
I chose one of the 3rd generation injected LPG systems which work with the cars original management system giving good economy and power (almost the same as original MPG outright) with a dramatic reduction in running costs and polution.
Also I have the advantage in choice of my vehicle type (UTE) and the motor gearbox combination.
Even though the gas comes from petrolium products at the moment I feel they will develop ways of producing gas as a product of waste disposal which will be less resourse hungry than producing biofuel from crops.
Correct me if I am wrong here anyone – in response to Julie on August 1st the NSW government slap on a 3X3 fuel levy to fund road works. It was suppose to last an x amount of years. It’s just they haven’t taken it off as it commands great funding to the government.
In response to Prius being great for maintenance etc. think again. Here at work they thought it was a good idea to upgrade their pool cars to the green technology. However, as time went by they did their sums and worked out that the green car cost them more to run/operate/maintain than the petrol/diesel counterparts. They are being replaced quick smart.
I have just bought a Jeep Cherokee turbo diesel. What a great engine!! I have only just filled the tank for the first time and I did 725 km for 68.2 litres. That is 9.41 l/100km or 30.1 MPG and most around the city. Fantastic!! And since man-made CO2 emissions only make up
I sold my thirsty 100 series landcruiser Petrol and bought a Jeep Cherokee Turbo Diesel, it is a great engine……when its going, but after 14 mths of trouble with this vehicle and costantly taking it back to the dealer to have it rectified under warranty, my wife and I had enough and got rid of the LEMON. We now drive a 5 year old BMW 325i and its an absolute joy, with no squeeks and rattles that the Jeep had in abundance due to its shoddy build quality and the fuel economy is great too, on a recent trip to Coffs Hbr it returned 7.6 litres / 100km, and we really don’t miss the smelly oily dirty visits to the diesel bowser either, and so far the downsize seems to be working for us.
Diesel vehicle have improved a lot in the past few years, compared to the dirty and gutless one tonners of the ’80s. Like Chris, I drive a 3 litre diesel Rodeo ute, and would not go back to petrol. Economical and flexible, they are good to drive. The only downside is the greedy pricing policies of oil companies & governments. I cannot understand why the local car manufacturers have not been more forward thinking about their power plants, if they made a diesel Falcon I would buy one tomorrow! The VW Golf is great, but just too small to suit all the needs of a single car family.
About 7 years ago, I bought a 1981 Peugeot diesel. Yes, it is old diesel technology, and so probably a bit dirty smog wise, but the fuel economy is still unbelievable.
On a recent trip from Melbourne to Wagga Wagga with a 2 day stop over in the Victorian highlands, I used about 7.7 litres/100km. That was with three children and a FULLY loaded boot! I am still amazed.
Claire, yes, things will go wrong but they will with any mechanical device. My experience is that diesel engines just need to be treated differently to petrol engines. Don’t let them overheat! (Bad experience
)
The new Renault Megane diesel looks like the way to go if you want a medium sized car. Better performance, economy, features than the Golf (by a mile, country or otherwise!).
Cheers
I converted my Falcon van to LPG 15 years ago. Since then I have travelled 620,000 Km on all types of city and country roads without any problems with the gas system apart from a hose that cost $40 to replace. The current engine has done 325,000 Km wthout any head or valve problems and still runs as well as it did the day it was built, the only parts requiring replacement have been the timing chain and two oil seals.which I put down to a combination of LPG and synthetic oil. The van loaded, weighs 2200 Kg and uses an av. of 20 litres per 100 Km. I estimate that over the 15 years I have saved at least $40,000 using LPG I think that if you are driving more than thirty or forty thousand Km per year LPG is hard to beat.
We were thinking of downgrading to a smaller car back in 2000 but we decided we preferred the comfort of the larger car so purchased a Falcon AU and immediately after the 1st service had it converted to LPG. It was the best move ever and we have the convenience of duel fuels, if by chance we are in woop-woop and they don’t do gas. The car is now 7 years old and has 210,000km on the clock. There is no power loss and only once we had a problem with switching from petrol to LPG which needed new spark plug leads.
Hi
Does anyone know of an “expert” at tuning up LPG to get the best out of it?
I am not totally happy having to “rev” the engine on starting to switch from petrol to LPG and having to stop the car when switching to petrol if the LPG runs out while I am driving.
I live in the St George district in Sydney – any suggestions?
RE SuperMoosie Says: – Comment August 1st, 2007 at 2:18 pm
“As for diesel being less refined than petrol. yes the diesel condenses lower down in the fractionating column when refining, but is refined has just same as petrol. The cost increase is because the refiners had to do a very costly upgrade to their refinerys to develop low sulffer Diesel and the higher prices are just them getting their return on their investment.”
From Motormouth
Motormouth – Which oil company employs you to peddle their nonsense? Oil companies have had to refine diesel to a higher level in Europe and Japan for years – Japanese diesel vehicles sent to Australia have had to be detuned to cope with our antiquated diesel refining methods. The technology has been available to oil companies all that time. Only a complacent and compliant federal government let them get away with it and swallowed the line about the expensive up grade story – it’s baloney.
On the question of fuel prices – late last week (25/11/07) I paid 149.9 for diesel at a Caltex owned station in Gosford (I checked that they owned it). Just down the road into the city, an independent station was charging 139.9 for diesel and 134.9 for bio-diesel. Unfortunately I was very low on fuel and had to stop at the first station in Gosford – baaddd mistake! Oh, and by the way a very small sign on the Caltex diesel pump mentioned that it was 2% bio-diesel – no discount for that!. Who says the large American and other cartel members aren’t ripping off the motorists? Oh for an ACCC with more powers.
See also the post of Chris – August 5th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
on his comments about prices of diesel in other States.
Unlike you motormouth, I have put my name to my comments!
I have just bought a new VW Golf GT Sport 2.0L TDi Diesel 6 speed auto. Utterly fantastic. I drive 60 km to and from work each day on Canberra’s roads so I spend a lot of time at over 100 kph. Economy is less than 6 L/100Km all the time with less than 5 L/100Km when I cruise home. The acceleration is 0 100 in 8 seconds. Most of my driving is spent in 6th gear and I don’t spend all my time having to change gears continuously. Too many comments have confused old technology trucks and buses with new tech turbo-diesels. You will not see any black smoke coming out of my diesel and compared to my V6 and V8 Commodores I am using up to half the fuel with a still spacious car. Try a diesel Golf and you won’t be sorry and diesels consistently leave current hybrids for dead in the fuel economy stakes. Hybrids are best for purely jam-packed Sydney driving. I leave home before 7.30am to miss even Canberra’s minor traffic problems and cruise home at 3.30pm with no traffic at all.
I think it really doesn’t make sense for the auto manufacturers to come up with diesel hybrids. What good does it do for the environment — although they’re using hybrid technology, yet diesel is more damaging to the environment.
I have not made the switch. Here in the US the price of diesel fuel has increased eliminating the price differential between gas and diesel (that used to support buying a diesel). Diesel fuel has a higher heating value per gallon does gasoline and hence the percieved improvement in gas mileage. In a lot of cases diesel engines are more expensive than gas because of the higher compression ratios and additional steel needed to support the high loading of pistons relative to gas. You do produce less CO2 per mile traveled using diesel but I’m not sure that justifies an entire economy of cars to switch over. My thoughts anyway.