Diesel, hybrid or don’t care – have you made the switch?
July 16th, 2007
Global warming and CO2 emissions are two issues we now confront on a daily basis.
We’re all aware of the problem, but has this influenced your choice of car or transport?
If you were in the market for a diesel powered car five years ago, it was slim pickings. At the time, European stalwarts Citroen, Mercedes-Benz and Peugeot could help you, but petrol-hybrid cars were almost non-existent on our shores.
Today almost every manufacturer offers a diesel variant, from economy priced to luxury, while Honda, Lexus and Toyota all have hybrids in their line-up.
However, manufacturers have not eliminated petrol models from their range entirely – petrol powered cars still sell the most units by far. Perhaps we’re not as concerned about our car’s ‘carbon footprint’ as the media would have us believe.
With so much on offer, have you made the switch from petrol to diesel or hybrid power, and what has the experience taught you?
Or do you still have your petrol car, with no intention of switching to an alternative?
How much is your decision guided by financial or environmental reasons?
Or have you dispensed with a car altogether?
July 17th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
Diesel is definately the way to go!
July 17th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Why on earth is DIESEL fuel heaps more expensive in Sydney, and a bit more expensive in country NSW BUT cheaper or the same in other states? It is also cheaper overseas. I’m thinking about buying a small diesel vehicle.
July 18th, 2007 at 9:45 am
Hold on… since when has Diesel been GOOD for the environment? It’s my understanding that while Diesel has lower CO2 and hydrocarbon emissions, for the energy output, the black exhaust smoke is one of the main contributors to global warming because it absorbs light and causes that haze which is so popular in industrialised cities. As a result, the earth’s radiation balance is upset.
Furthermore, Diesel exhaust is very bad for you and widely considered a health hazard. Look at the studies of miners who work with Diesel fuels, for example.
The popularity of Diesel has increased thanks to developments in diesel engines, allowing for more economy without diesel’s trademark rattle.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but diesel is not becoming more popular because it’s good for the atmosphere.
What I do want to know is how much of the diesel available at the bowser is biodiesel.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Brian,
It depends. Yes in the bygone era of dirty diesel engines they were more harmful with high sulfur content, lots of dangerous particles etc.
The situation is that most modern diesels rely on clean technology - whether it be filters or other systems to remove the harmful particles and chemicals that make up the “black” exhaust (just check out any diesel golf etc you won’t find masses of black smoke pouring out the back).
We also get cleaner - low sulfur content diesel fuel and better fuel economy.
Also, you need to look at diesel cars in the same way you look at petrol cars - 30 years ago they were terrible inefficient and generated a large amount of pollution. Give Diesel another 10 years and it will be a very acceptable alternative.
I would like to think that most people do care about the atmosphere and it does influence buying decisions just as much as cost of fuel does. Look at the explosion of growth in small car sales.
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:49 pm
Diesel - or specifically biodiesel is the way to go. After all the first cars were designed to run on peanut oil (ie, Karl Benz).
Australia has alot of catching up to do with respect to the rest of the world in terms of alternative fuels (including some “3rd world” countries already ahead of Australia in this respect). And with Australia a primary industry based country, it should be a world leader with all the high energy yielding crops we could grow.
In regards to diesel model alternatives, in Europe the majority of car models has a diesel alternative - with some better than their petrol counterpart.
It seems that the Australian divisions of some of the car giants see Australia as not an important market. Why arent we getting all the diesel models that the Europeans have been getting for years? The other thing are the manufacturers reluctance to specifically tweak and certify their diesel engines to run on biodiesel?
July 22nd, 2007 at 7:53 pm
Answer to Brian Liu - see the following website.
http://www.sydneybiodiesel.com/
The other alternative is to make it yourself, like many out there are trying with great success.
July 22nd, 2007 at 8:18 pm
For anyone who still believes in man induced global warning and CO2 bull*@#! I have this to say ” the emperor is wearing no clothes”
However petrol prices will still rise regardless, so it’s worth going to diesel or hybrid. But why is diesel so dear.
Thanks to Grahame K for letting us know it’s just NSW where we are getting ripped off.
BTW I am in process of buying a VW TDI diesel - some reports put its country consumption rates as low as 4l/100km on a good day
July 23rd, 2007 at 8:49 am
Looked at diesel but the one that I thought would be OK had problems with the high pressure fuel pump for the common rail injection and the low sulphur fuel’s lubrication properties. So I opted for a lighter and proven 4 cylinder petrol vehicle which can run on the standard UL 91 octane fuel.
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:04 am
Tezza,
I think you might be a bit wrong about the man induced global warming bit. We clearly are to blame for at least accelerating a process that could occur naturally if not causing it all together.
That said car’s aren’t responsible for most of the pollution, heavy industry and power is. But we are also running out of fuel. Most people are interested in the “we are running out of fuel” not the “I am polluting my backyard” bit.
Also, Diesel, expensive? Depends, if you average out the fuel consumption you get over the price its pretty competitive against normal petrol. If you have to use Premium Unleaded, the difference its generally not that much. It will come down in price the more popular it gets.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:37 pm
I have changed to Diesel, I am more than happy with the fuel economy.
Some service stations need to improve access to the bowser and clean up the nozzle, I have often had to wash my hand after filling from a leaking nozzle assembly.
I notice in my handbook that the VW Jetta TDI does not recommend Bio Diesel any suggestions why as several suppliers are now offering 20% Biodiesel at a cheaper rate.
July 25th, 2007 at 4:48 pm
of farming back ground -having used all fuel types over many years its horses for coarses..the new auto disels are very clean and efficent ..supply of diesel is related to our aust capacity to refine diesel …in the colder areas you need to have winter diesel or things get bit hard to start infrosty weather –this is managered by on sellers adding ?????? so freezzing dosent occur -so there are a number of issues you need to consider . we run diesel tractor /diesel landrover table top/ Prado work horse / and b class benz. great little car.all diesel ..just convenent for fuel supply. still need petrol for the little motors and of coarse the ride on ..happy motoring
July 25th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
If the powers that be and the service station owners want us to use diesel for economy and enviroment then I have two things to say.
Please install more diesel outlets and more importantly clean up the ALWAYS messy bowsers. I almost always get the stuff on my hands. It is always spilled on the ground around the bowser for you to walk in and spread on the flooring and pedals of the vehicle. The nozzle on the end of the hose is always greasy or dirty and usually splashes out on your hands,clothes or the side of the vehicle.
I have a diesel 4×4 ute for work.I would love to buy a diesel family car or 4×4 but what I DONT want to do is que or go searching for the lone bowser out the back of the servo and I dont want it on my hands, my carpet or the brake pedal!
July 29th, 2007 at 11:40 pm
I bought a new Toyota Prado TX diesel in 2001. Great car - great economy. At that time the price of diesel fuel averaged 10 cents per litre below that of standard unleaded petrol. Nowdays it is not uncommon for it to be as much as 17 cents a litre more. Why? It can’t be the cost of the technology to produce it - this has been readily available overseas for years to oil companies. Nor would I accept an explanation about the additional cost of plant to produce it. Diesel is an earlier stage of refining than petrol - so it can’t be an extra cost there. I have personally noted the comparisons between NSW prices and those in other states. Apart from the obvious subsidisation by the govt in Qld, there is no satisfactory explanation.
What other explanation is there other than that the oil pirates are once again ripping off the motorist. We are seen as everyone’s milch cow - why doesn’t the NRMA take this up seriously and get something done about it?
July 30th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
I reckon the NRMA has done its part in helping with fuel prices, or at least championing the cause for better monitoring.
Its up to the motorists to decide fuel prices by lowering the demand and finding/supporting alternatives.
July 30th, 2007 at 11:13 pm
Dear All, there are many who do not care about the environment, or petrol prices, nor do some people care about speeding or drink drivng, or being inconsiderate drivers. It is time to change.
I have been in a lucky position to have a choice about what I invested in when purchasing a car. This time and the last my decision was based on a rational process than how fast does it go, how many KW, can it handle corners, will my friends and neighbours be impressed with my engine size or did the rev-head journalist love the car?
This time I looked at the manufacturing process - and reviewed how committed they were to the environment, and pollution. It is strange that most manufactures have little or no views on this.
Technology – I also decided to invest in modern advanced technology, and I selected a hybrid (again) because I am excited about this technology, and I want to support the improvement and development of this technology. It is fantastic in reducing local and global pollutants (especially depending on the manufactures process).
Often people talk about how much money a hybrid will save and there is no pay back period, yet the same people make no such comparison on the price difference between a ‘performance’ engine and a normal engine. (Especially when 9 out of 10 KM are driven in traffic) I would love to see this argument when comparing sports with normal cars! My hybrid saves me money every day and I get a smile from that.
There is also the unknown of the batteries, yet my 6 year old hybrid shows no sign of distress and returns better than the posted 2.3 l/100 km on the tollway.
You can think global warming is the main driver here and this is a part of my concern as is dirt and pollution that burning oil produces in our cities and near our homes (Just look at the m5 east which produces concentrated pollutants produced from burning oil) it is time to change.
I think if we all supported hybrid technology within a few years there would be Hybrid sports cars and sedans returning 1 to 2 l/100 km faster and more fun than a Porsche.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Hi all.
I find strange that the leading article stated that petrol-hybrid cars were non-existent on our shores 5 years ago, that is a WRONG.
My company owns 2 Honda Insights (hybrid), which were on sale in Australia in 2001. Which
They are great on fuel and maintenance.
Their operating cost is very low due to a few facts.
1. I drive 300 to 1200KMs trips for work and I can return home without having to refuel its 40 litre tank, I drive at 105 to 115Kmph with a possible top speed of 180Kmph. I get 1200 to 1300Km per 36 litres.
2. Being a Honda they keep working, batteries are OK and only cost $120 to refurbish, engines are great, tyre replacement occured at 40,000 Kms due to me wanting to try a lower rolling resistance tyres. Other than that it has only had the usual oil changes.
3. Insurance and registration is a bit cheaper, due to the cars light weight.
4. They are safe to drive, It saved my wifes life, a large construction truck smashed into the side of the insight while she was driving it. The superior aluminum body design, strenght, flexability and energy distribution gave her a severer shaking about but nothing serious failed and the car was still able to be driven to the panel beaters, the total cost for the repair was about $3,500 and that was covered by truck owners insurance. No person has yet been seriously injured or died on an Insight accident and some of the accidents have looked horrific.
5. I have the largest parcel shelf of any small car, it is large enough to carry the 0.9 metre microwave dishes I install for my clients.
6. They are the best advertising money can buy. These cars are so unique that they are instantly recognised and with that, so is my company.
I am a member of the insight users group and we are a little keen to get the most out of out beautiful cars, the current record to date is over 300mpg for a distance of 70miles.
About 2 years ago VW demonstrated it prototype 100mpg diesel car, it was interesting but a member of the insight users group in germany did the exact run and got better fuel ecomony from his Stock Honda Insight.
Existing Petrol-Hybird cars can far exceed anything that any diesel car can do.
Choosing the right hybrid for the task is half the problem.
On one hand we have the Toyota Prius which is an electric car with an inefficient petrol engine, so you get poor fuel ecomony on a long trip .
On the other hand we have the Honda Civic or Insight which have a very efficent petrol engine with an electric boost, so you get great fuel econony over all driving conditions.
Back in 2001 I did not buy an Insight due to the VERY poor road reports that everyone wrote about the car (including NRMA), all complained about the 6L/100Kms they were getting. I have never been about to get my figures worse than 5.2L/100Kms and that was with low tyre pressure and 44 degree heat and that was only for 5 Kms while I was driving through Dubbo.
Where I am located, the fuel cost is still $1.45/L and during the price increase last year it went to over $1.75/L, this did not slow my operations down at all. the price can double or tripple for all I care, I just do not use enough to even care about it. But I know many that would have to give up using their cars altogether if the price per litre goes to $3.50/L and one day it will.
It was not even 20 years ago when the price of fuel was 40cents/L now we are paying over 3 times that amount, so in 20 years if there is no reduction in the availability of fuel, our price will be about $4.35/L and that is only true if petrol remains easily available.
If fuel efficiency is unimportant, contract FORD engines, I feel if they are too stupid to develop or envision what is going to be needed for their survival in the market too bad for them.
To all users of large capacity engine cars, consider switching sooner than later, for when the price does go up you will be left holding something that is valueless and too expensive to use.
August 1st, 2007 at 1:57 pm
I converted in February 07 to LPG on my Ford Falcon BA Sedan.
On unleaded I managed approx 550km’s on a tank of Petrol which was about $75 to $80 to fill up.
On LPG I get about 350 on a tank of 50 litres which costs about $25-28 to fill.
That is less than 1/2 of the petrol cost.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:05 pm
Intersting comments & economy John. It seems hybrid technology has gone backwards. You get 1200k’s per 40 litres from your old Honda & that’s great.
An economy test a few years ago a Toyota Prius was beaten by both a Golf & Peugeot 307 diesel & another petrol small car (can’t remember which). While the Toyota was great around town the highway travel with a small engine needed all the time to assist with a heavy car killed the economy at speed. The diesels excelled at this with low revs & lots of torque. It seems from that result country transport is more suited to diesel while city would be good for hybrids. Wait for the hybid diesels coming soon.
One question & I haven’t seen any answers, is the production cost to the environment of all those batteries & heavy metals. Also the disposal of spent batteries?
August 1st, 2007 at 2:13 pm
In 2005 purchased a 2000 Ford Falcon which is factory fitted with LPG only its been the best thing I ever did the only regret I have is that I didn’t do it sooner because when I bought the car I was buying gas for as low as .35 cents per litre and know 2 years on your lucky if you find it under the .50 cents per litre. Before 2005 the price was quite constant around the .35 to .48 cents per litre, mind you even though its gone up its still a lot cheaper than petrol I have stretched 1 tank of gas to as much as 420km with still more to go I just didn’t want to risk running out as that means a tow to the nearest service station if I ran out of gas. A tank of gas costs me around $30.00 to $40.00 depending on how much it is and how empty my tank is as I don’t trust my fuel gauge so instead reset my speedo on each fill and work off the km’s. I understand that the government is going to slap on excise tax on LPG by 2011 so hopefully that will give me at least another 4 years of cheaper motoring and by then I hope to have found a cheaper alternative to petrol.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:15 pm
“With so much on offer”….
I find that comment a joke when referring to Australia’s new passenger car market.
The reality is petrol cars are the dominant force with diesel only starting to make up numbers in recent years. There are only 3 factory hybrids available on Australian roads, a couple of factory LPG, No factory Electric, No factory CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), No factory ethanol, No multiple fuel vehicles, No diesel/electric hybrids….
Our family is looking for a new small to medium car and I really hate the limited numbers of truly alternate options.
I would love a plug-in hybrid, or cng vehicle with home refuel, or all electric (powered by renewable sources), or ethanol, or butanol… anything to remove our dependence on oil for transport…
But in 2007 / 2008 it is slim pickings in Australia.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:18 pm
I commute 160Km a day. With my small 1.6 litre 4WD I was spending about $150 a week. We brought a E-Falcon on dedicated LPG and now spend about $70. It runs just like a normal falcon. The boot space is a little smaller than the normal falcon, but was a lot bigger than we had before. The Spare tyre is a space saver but how often do you need to change tyres. A full size tyre is just wasted weight and hence fuel. Better for the wallet, slightly better than petrol for the enviroment.
It takes you a little longer a the petrol station as there is normaly only one pump and you have to wait for people to get out of the way and the LPG takes a little longer to fill. However the litres go up faster than the Dollars.
As for diesel being less refined than petrol. yes the diesel condenses lower down in the fractionating column when refining, but is refined has just same as petrol. The cost increase is because the refiners had to do a very costly upgrade to their refinerys to develop low sulffer Diesel and the higher prices are just them getting their return on their investment. Also
As for price difference between states,
Diesel averages
City June 2007 December 2006 June 2006
Brisbane 121.0 114.7 134.8
Sydney 130.8 124.4 143.7
Melbourne 125.2 119.5 140.0
Adelaide 131.0 123.3 143.4
Perth 130.8 124.9 143.8
From Motormouth
As for oversea pricing, Diesel in June sold for $Aus 0.92 (in US) to $3.20 (Slovenia)
August 1st, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I’m certainly thinking of going to diesel, but I would prefer more choices for LPG that could be purchased as standard specification, and especially in smaller cars. Congratulations to Mitsubishi for now selling the 380 as a factory gas option with no loss of power and a negligible loss of torque. Why is Australia pumping all it’s gas to China when we will surely be needing it ourselves, and should be using it now!
August 1st, 2007 at 2:51 pm
I bought a Ford BA Futura 2003 dedicatedLPG (factory fitted).
I have been running it fr three years and Iam more than happy with the result. I am averaging 12.5 litres per 100km, which is pretty good for LPG.
Did a trip comparison from Newcastle to Muswellbrook and got 11.1 ltr/100k from my LPG. Same model petrol version gave 9.5 ltr/100k for same trip. For 300k that is $18.30 vs $34.77.
I get 600 to 700 k per tank.
Power is as good as a petrol car. Cost is about half.
Repars and maintenance are supposed to be higher with LPG but I have not experienced thia as yet. But because it is factory fitted dedicated LPG all the valves and important bits are heavy duty. (LPG burns much hotter than petrol I believe)
I cannot understand why more manufacturers do not provide an LPG option.
August 1st, 2007 at 2:55 pm
I switched from my fuel guzzling Ford BA 2003 XR6 in May last year to a VW 2006 Golf 1.9 Turbo Diesel.
Is it undoubtably the best thing I have ever done? YES!
I’ve gone from 13.3 L/100KM to 4.8 L/100km… I think that speaks for itself!
Should I also say that my Golf which was $10 000 CHEAPER than the XR6 has 3 times the features that my old XR6 did?
That was the other driving factor in the change. No wonder people are changing from Aussie cars to European ones.
August 1st, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Anyone out there converted a V8 Petrol Landcruiser to LPG recently? I am interested to learn how its going?
August 1st, 2007 at 3:23 pm
I have just switched to a Diesel Land Rover Discovery 3 from a Petrol V8 Land Rover series 2. It was as much an environmental as it was an economic decision. Love the additional range with the diesel and as I am not a lead foot driver find the performance differences minor and not impacting at all on the driving experience. Concerned though that city diesel prices are upwards of 22 cents a litre higher than unleaded, whereas in the country the prices are often identical to unleaded. Why the difference?
August 1st, 2007 at 3:27 pm
I’ve read all of the above in one go and then taken a deep breath before responding. Before reading about the Honda Insight above, I always considered Hybrid cars a bit before their time and quite expensive to buy and operate.
A pity really, as I have just ordered a low boost turbo engined car. This engine is very efficient for a petrol engine but then that isn’t saying much because all petrol engines are wickedly inefficient.
Hi-tech diesel engines have overcome all of the old vices, especially the soot issue. You are more at risk from particles from a laser copier/printer than from a modern diesel engine these days. But they are, again, very expensive to buy compared with a comparable petrol engine.
Private consumers of diesel fuel are very small fry and don’t influence the price. Off-road users like miners and farmers don’t pay excise. A typical opencut coal mine would use 1 or 2 million litres per month! Then there are all the trucking companie, the military, etc.
Diesel is the price it is because, as with all commodities, suppliers charge what the market will bear and the government authorities let them get away with. It is just the interaction of Supply and Demand, NOT a conspiracy.
Diesel and petrol prices at the wholesale level are set in a *free* market in Singapore. The prices respond immediately or even in anticipation of variations to supply or demand.
From an Australian standpoint we should be looking to run on compressed natural gas as some busses do or, at least LPG. There is an abundant supply of this (CNG) relatively clean fuel available in Australia without having to upset the balance of trade and payments.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I converted my XC Falcon to LPG 25 years ago (Taxi) and drove it for some 300′000 kms until I sold the Taxi plates and also the car, which I have been sorry for ever since. The technology back then was certainly not as advanced as today, but I was more than happy with the car’s performance and economy. For buisness reasons I need a big station wagon (I don’t believe in driving 4WDs in the city) and have now ordered a new, LPG only, Ford. I’m very exited about it, and even though I have not taken delivery yet, I’m convinced, that a dedicated gas engine is sure to perform even better than the old converted petrol engine did 25 years ago. I can’t believe the push towards LPG is not stronger.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:27 pm
Interesting about Diesel, live like I do near an Expressway and you have to keep the house closed due to the BLACK SOOT from the Diesels if the wind blows ourway so now keep the , front of the house closed at all times , great stuff if you like the fall out .
RE LPG, i have a 94 Ford wagon its been on Gas for 10 years, No Complaints no major problems still have a 30 litre petrol tank as back up
, average about 450 to 500 klms on a tank of LPG,one queary WHY the great price hikes in LPG it is not linked to the fuel in wherever they choose this week , BUT up it goes especialy in the Morriset area ONE SERVO , petrol at Giveaway in Sydney here $1.29 a real bargain , no opposition , ONE SERVO localy, again no one can tell me why the gas can change from day to day , perchance NRMA may like to include Lake Macquarie in their price watch. LPG a great way to go and good savings on fuel costsespecialy if you live in Sydney.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:35 pm
I got rid of my 4wheel drive Toyota Prado and Coromal caravan and purchased the Toyota Prius hybrid. I have been happy as Larry ever since as I am averaging about 100 kilometres per 4.7 litres (it depends on how much stop and go city traffic I do, versus freeway driving at 110 kph). This means on a 45 litre tank, I go about 1,000 kilometres. Toyota has engineered another winner with their Prius lineup. It is fast, easy to drive and fuel efficient. I couldn’t be happier.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:36 pm
Have changed to a diesel and I’m happy with the fuel economy, but like previous entries why is diesel so much more expensive than petrol which has go through more refining thus more cost to produce than diesel.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:37 pm
Hybrid technology is the way to go.
August 1st, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I have owned a number of Priuses from the original 2001 Australian released older shape model to the current shape. I have driven all over NSW and interstate. There is more than enough power to travel at expressway speeds including long hills.
Having driven, (but never owned) many diesel vehicles over the years, I found that the bowser area and nozzles are always greasy, and you nearly need a change of shoes and a good handwash after refueling. I live on a road which is a bus route, with all the buses, trucks, tourist coaches winding up the hill the black diesel grime gets over and into my house and even cars in the garage.
I believe that hybrid technology will only improve.(as it has since the first Prius was released overseas in 1997)
Long live the Prius, try one, you will like them.
August 1st, 2007 at 6:35 pm
HI. YES WE MADE THE SWITCH ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO. WOULDN’T PART WITH OUR PEUGOET 406 .WE HAVE AN AUTO WHICH DOESN’T GET AS MUCH MILEAGE AS A MANUAL,BUT WE RECENTLY WENT TO QLD AND GOT 1250 KLM ON A 70 LITRE TANK.JUST SET THE CRUISE CONTROL TO THE SPEED SIGNS . I’M SURE IF WE AVERAGED A LOWER SPEED WE WOULD HAVE GOT MORE KLMS . WHY IS THE PETROL CHEAPER IN QLD.PLEASE EXPLAIN JOHN HOWARD.
August 1st, 2007 at 6:59 pm
I bought a new Golf 1.9 TDI in March this year - the best decision I ever made in cars! More than 800km on a tank around town (more than 1000km on the highway) I only refuel every 18-21 days instead of every week. Nice to drive, beautifully appointed. A great car. I love it.
August 1st, 2007 at 9:50 pm
My Ford Territory is the 4th vehicle that I have had converted to LPG.
There is NO difference in power. TOWED CARAVANS WITH THEM ALL.
LESS bad emissions.
Much increased range with the 2 fuels, although I only run on petrol when I have to.
COSTS LESS THAN 1/2 THE PRICE OF PETROL, REALLY HALVING THE FUEL BILL.
4 CENTS /LITRE OFF IS REALLY WORTH 8 CENTS REDUCTION !!!
LOVE IT !!!
Jack
August 1st, 2007 at 9:57 pm
We converted the petrol guzzling NM Mitsubishi Pajero to dual fuel LPG. Nothing but problems, despite all servicing being up to date. A backfire blew apart the airbox and dented the bonnet from the inside out. Not a good look in a system less than 3 months old. Shame because running on LPG is far cheaper and better for the environment. If you’re thinking about it, do your homework. Your car may never be the same again.
August 1st, 2007 at 11:06 pm
I am in the process of buying an electric bike.
20-30 kmph 30-40k range and free exercise.
At 24kn round trip @ 50c/km (car) it pays for its self in 125 trips or 62 weeks at two days per week.
What do others think?
August 1st, 2007 at 11:35 pm
I am the honda Insights operator.
Of course the heavy metals used in the creation of any car is important.
The battery pack in the Insight is about the volume of 3 normal lead acid battteries, so there is not that much Nickel in them.
Just about the whole car is recyclable, including the batteries.
No one is claiming that the Insight is environmently neutral, only a fool would think that, but the Insight puts out far less CO2 than any car on the market today.
I bought the cars because I have always liked small engined cars. I use to drive a Lotus Excel and its normal 2.2L engine could haul 4 people to 100Kmph in 5 seconds, not bad for something that small.
Fuel in the not to distant future will cost more, we need to prepare for that fact sooner than later.
There are a few easy fuel choices available today, petrol, ethanol, diesel and LPG. We would be wise to choose a different fuel type for each of us, that way all our eggs are not in the same basket.
Currently I think that hyper fuel efficent engines and extremely light cars are what is needed, but this will not be suitable for everyones use.
Hybrid technology is the way to go. As long as we are getting what they claim we should be getting.
PS. No matter what type of driving I do , country or city the Insights always give 1200 to 1300Kms per 36 litres of petrol.
August 1st, 2007 at 11:59 pm
Diesel …… Filthy, smelly and messy! … as has already been pointed out!
Stand in it to fill up, gets on your hands, on your shoes … into the car. Next to impossible to get the smell off your hands, and if somehow, you manage to touch some part of the equipment and get it onto your clothes … Great stuff !
My husband can keep his diesel van - oh, and so much for goes forever - they cost a FORTUNE to repair when something does go wrong - and it will.
I’ll drive my VT wagon (on petrol and LPG) ANY day. Brilliant economy on gas and very little extra upkeep. Car has just clicked over 460000 km on the original motor. No, it is not a taxi, but I do a lot of K’s for work.
…. I am curious about the hybrid Insight that was ’smashed’ by a truck…. and cost $3500 to repair …. a recent scrape down the side of my car cost almost double that to fix !
GO LPG, get the Govt rebate and reap the saving over and over again !
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:16 am
We put LPG into our 1995 Falcon when we bought it in 1996 and have never regretted it. No problems running it - no problems filling up right around Australia and the price (although well above its correct price) is great.
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:20 am
Have a Golf TDI 2000lt Comfortline, I go to my sons in Wollongong from Holbrook & back with plenty of fuel left.
I have had Holdens Chryslers Nissans and Mazdas before,
THE GOLF BEATS THEM ALL IN ALL CATEGORIES by a
country mile.
August 2nd, 2007 at 9:52 am
I bought a brand new VY 2 5sp man S Commodore. The fuel economy can be excellent drive gently.
Driving around 110km/h on the freeway it uses about 7.8 L/100 km. On a trip from Sydney to Perisher Valley doing about 85 km/h I got 6.9 L/100km.
I live in Campbelltown & work in Bankstown doing about 40% highway & 60% city and I average high 7’s to low 8’s /100km.
I have tested it driving hard, on numerous full tanks of fuel, pedal to the metal as much as possible ( to the speed limit ), red lining 1st & 2nd gears, & the worst I have seen is 10.2 L/100km.
There is no way that I will switch to a small car to save $150 to $200 a year on petrol. I do a lot of long distance trips. weekend camping, day trips to the snow, drives upto Qld, & the Commodore is a very comfortable car to sit in & drive long distances.
Commodore diesel, come on down.
In just over 3 years I have done 115,000 km, no breakdowns. regularly serviced. Have replaced a noisy steering rack under warranty.
So what I’m saying is that any vehicle can achieve good fuel economy if driven smoothly & gently, reading what is happening on the road ahead, what the traffis lights are doing, etc.
Even the VR auto Commodore I had before I could get upto 850km a tank on the highway, & in the VY, upto 1070km on the highway.
Happy motoroing to all,
madmal.
August 2nd, 2007 at 10:15 am
the best option is LPG (IF) the best technology was available,its not.30yrs ago i had a 8ton truck running on LPG the same tech. as today. so 5yrs ago i bought a commonrail diesel car(before i owned a mazda 121 bubble)a PUG306 , SENSATIONAL 6/100 in the east of sydney,great touque characteristics perfect for suburban driving and open road under 110kms,overtaking.ENVIRONMENT i though the 9 governments in AUS looked after that. P.S. you should use the best possible quality diesel and an additive OR B20.
August 2nd, 2007 at 12:52 pm
Please tell me How much to switch from ULP petrol to LPG for my 2002 Mitsubishi Magna ES model and also How much do I get a rebate from Medicare?
Is it worth doing?
August 2nd, 2007 at 8:41 pm
I also have a Mitsubishi Magna but it’s 1995, is it worth converting to LPG? Someone said it’d cost $2800 with $2000 rebate back from the government (surely not Medicare). Is this true?
August 3rd, 2007 at 1:26 pm
The Govt offers incentives to convert vehicles from petrol to LPG. Why doesn’t the Govt offer incentives to purchase hybrid cars by reducing the stamp duty, providing registration discounts and/or maybe a cashback?
Why doesn’t the Govt (at all levels) take the lead and use only LPG and/or hybrid technology for work related vehicles in Govt?
August 3rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
The whole issue needs a strong direction, hybrids and other soft options are not the answer.
In 1948, my father worked for BOC (British Oxygen Company in UK) who had a motor vehicle running on (I think it was) hydrogen fuel in their factory grounds. The petrol companies bought the rights and the project stopped.
Does this tell you a message, it tells me that until their is an logical, authoritative direction free of bias, we should continue on as is.
August 3rd, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Had an old customer who built his own solar powered car(I am an Electrician),he was a retired Engineer. It was an almost new Daihatsu Charade. He pulled the motor and gearbox out and put in the boot a dozen deepcycle lead acid batteries. No high technology here. In the front of the car was two high torque DC motors, one for each front wheel. These he bought from the Engineering department of a Sydney university. From the uni he also bought some clever control gear to manage the batteries and allow some slip between the two driving wheels to aid turning at low speeds. I installed six solar panels and a battery charger , all off- the- shelf stuff, on top of his shed.
This car had a 500km range, a theoretical top speed of 150km/h and would drive around town all day. You could monitor the amount of charge left in the batteries. You could recharge the completely flat batteries in about two days with solar only or do a fast charge overnight plugged into the 240. He had a power point supplied with off-peak power (half price electricity) for this purpose. It had little use.
This little car was simple, relatively inexpensive to build and was perfect as a run-about. Servicing consisted of topping up the batteries with a little distilled water, and keeping the solar panels clean. Paid itself off in a couple of years.
What more could you want?.
August 4th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Think of the total concept!
To make a hybrid car you put a lot of co2 into the atmosphere.
theoretically Hybrid would be ideal, but the total emission is NO less.
The same goes for other technologies. to produce the products, there is still a massive amount of co2 produced.
There is certainly nothing new about very efficient cars, most inventions that produce super efficient designs are swiftly bought up by petrol companies !!!
The car manufacturers do not help much either, some improvements could be made and even reduce the cost of the car, also reduce emissions to produce the car.
The best option would be public transport, but in Australia this is not an option, as public transport is almost non existing and what is there wastes a lot of time to get to destination.
Public transport is only viable when it is faster than road transport.
Espacially in the smart state where even the tilt train hardly hit 120 km/h and that only in places, what can you expect.
Compare that to the european train network now gearing up to go above 350km/h.
There is only one comment I have to make to the state and federal government:
FAIL TO PLAN and you PLAN TO FAIL !!!!!!
August 5th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
I own a 3.0 L intercooled turbo diesel powered Rodeo 4WD Ute which does 9L /100 km easily and which never blows smoke. It does not produce the smelly exhaust of modern petrol engines either. I am dissapointed that the NSW price for diesel is higher than petrol whereas in other states it is often the reverse. When visiting Sydney or driving across it to get to Qld, I never fill up in Sydney as many of the servos there either do not sell diesel or are badly set up for diesel users. In rural Australia diesel is avaiable everywhere.
August 6th, 2007 at 4:43 pm
I was looking around for a replacement for our Mercedes 190E, a car with the same comfort level and size . finished up buying a second hand Peugeot 406 HDI manual which has the best seats we have experienced.The diesel is great to drive , in cruise control it eats the hills on the higway but needs are little experience to addapt to the turbo i.e. keeping the revs up above 1500 rpm and changing down on the overrun as it idles at about 900 rpm. Economy, like Julie we get about 1300 km on a 70 litre tank full. Best checked milage was Albury to Sydney and return via Canberra with about 10 litres still on board i.e. 4.8 litres/100kms.
Usually average 5.2- 5.6 on a mix of highway and town running.
This will probably be the last car I buy so am looking for this to last for a few years. Considered a Toyota Prius but no one could tell the projected battery life or the cost of replacement.
August 7th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
1. My vehicle
I have a 2001 AU11 Ford LTD V8 sedan which I had converted to liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) in August 2006.
2. Cost of conversion
Installation took 2 days and cost $2,600. After deducting the government grant of $2,000, the net cost was $600.
3. Background
I prefer a big car due to my height and I like to drive a V8. Soaring petrol prices presented a dilemma – downsize to a smaller car to cut fuel costs or keep paying increasing petrol prices which for me, was very hard to justify, given that I am retired and travel mainly locally in the Sydney area. Converting to LPG offered a possible solution as I could cut fuel costs and keep my V8 LTD and as a bonus, at the same time contribute to the reduction of greenhouse gases.
4. The result
I am extremely happy with the result. I have substantially cut fuel costs with no discernible loss in engine performance. Fortunately the LTD has a large boot, so the 68 litre LPG tank fitted neatly under the back seat sill area without protruding into the open boot area, so I still have a quite adequate boot available. The 68 litre petrol tank is retained which, when coupled with the LPG tank, substantially increases the vehicle’s range.
5. Conversion kit used
A MED vapour LPG kit (Airod) was installed together with a 68 litre Manchester LPG tank. See http://www.medauto.com.au
6. How it works
I can start the car on LPG or petrol selecting either by the press of a switch – red LED for petrol and yellow LED for LPG. In my case if starting on LPG I have to rev the motor for the LPG to cut in. When the LPG tank is full, 1 yellow and 5 green LEDs glow. As gas is used the number of LEDs diminishes until there is only the yellow LED glowing. When this happens, it’s time to either refill the LPG tank or switch over to petrol.
7. Myths (from my experience and understanding)
i. There are no engine backfires
ii. There is no smell of gas
iii. LPG tanks are quite safe being double skinned steel. Petrol tanks are plastic.
iv. There is no discernible loss of engine performance
v. Filling up is easy and similar to petrol except that you screw the nozzle from the LPG bowser onto the LPG filler, which is located inside the fuel flap beside the existing petrol cap.
vi. I checked with Ford Melbourne and was advised that the extended warranty was not voided (which the dealer told me it would be). The LPG kit or damaged due to LPG naturally is not covered. It is claimed that LPG is actually beneficial for the engine resulting in less engine wear and longer life for spark plugs.
vii. LPG is manufactured during refining of crude oil, or extracted from oil or gas streams as they emerge from the ground; in past years it was wasted.
Contrary to popular belief, diesel produces more greenhouse gas than LPG, it is also more expensive.
8. Downside
Very minor when you get used to it, but …..
i. When starting the car, I have to rev the motor for the LPG to take over from petrol (not a big deal)
ii. It is difficult to know when the LPG is about to run out as there is no accurate fuel gauge visible to the driver (there is one on the tank). If the LPG cuts out while you are driving, the engine “hesitates” momentarily, before automatically switching to petrol. This is a bit of a safety issue, particularly if it happens at a crucial time, such as turning in front of oncoming traffic. A couple of times the car has stalled completely and this is obviously unacceptable. The answer at this point in time is to fill up the LPG tank or switch to petrol when the LPG indicator shows only the yellow LED.
9. Comparison of running costs between LPG and petrol
For interest sake, I have kept accurate records of the cost of LPG and what the cost would have been for unleaded petrol (ULP) based on litres per 100 kilometres travelled both for city and highway driving. I have used the price per litre for ULP at our local servo on the same day as I fill up with LPG. Being a Budget outlet, on average ULP is probably a bit cheaper here than most servos.
Based on my records (remembering my car is a V8), I ascertained that for city running, LPG was approximately 77% as efficient as ULP. Surprisingly, for highway driving, there was virtually no difference between ULP and LPG. For city driving LPG consumption was 22 to 25 litres per 100 kilometres and for highway driving, 13 to 16 litres per 100 kilometres.
In straight dollar terms, 68 litres of LPG at say 50c per litre costs $34.00. For 68 litres of ULP at say $1.20 per litre, the cost is $81.60, resulting in a saving per tank of about $47.60 for highway driving. For city driving at 77% efficiency, the cost difference reduces to $28.83 – still a considerable saving per tank of LPG.
Over about 8,000 kilometres of predominately city plus some highway driving, the saving has been –
i. Straight dollars - $1,250
ii. LPG 77% efficiency - $845
Given the cost of installation was a net $600, the LPG saving has already paid for itself.
(Don’t try and check these calculation as you haven’t got all the figures)
10. Finally
BP issues a card for use at some of its outlets, where 2c per litre discount on LPG can be claimed. Woolworths (Caltex) and Coles (Shell) both offer 4c per litre discount on fuel purchased at participating service stations for minimum spends of $30 at their stores. Coles can be up to 6cper litre. IGA offers 4c per litre discount on groceries on production of a fuel docket irrespective of where the fuel was purchased.
The government grant can be claimed by completing a form and submitting it with proof of payment and a certificate from an accredited LPG installer to any Medicare or Centrelink office or by posting to the LPG Claim Processing Unit GPO Box 1536 Adelaide SA 5001.
The vehicle’s registration papers have to be endorsed by the RTA to say that LPG has been installed. There is no charge for this and no increase in rego fees.
The Insurer of the vehicle should be advised of the installation so the policy can be endorsed - again no cost is involved.
The LPG installer will attach a small red “LPG” sticker to the number plates; probably to alert emergency services should the vehicle be involved in an accident.
11. In retrospect, would I do the same thing again?
Definitely.
August 7th, 2007 at 2:03 pm
I recently went through the throws of wether to convery my existing vehicle to LPG or buy a new diesel.
The diesel option looked good with the ecomomy etc but even though they have fap filters to cut the photochemical smog the still need fuel to burn off the collected particles, producing non visable carbon particles which are still injurious to your health.
I chose one of the 3rd generation injected LPG systems which work with the cars original management system giving good economy and power (almost the same as original MPG outright) with a dramatic reduction in running costs and polution.
Also I have the advantage in choice of my vehicle type (UTE) and the motor gearbox combination.
Even though the gas comes from petrolium products at the moment I feel they will develop ways of producing gas as a product of waste disposal which will be less resourse hungry than producing biofuel from crops.
August 8th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
Correct me if I am wrong here anyone - in response to Julie on August 1st the NSW government slap on a 3X3 fuel levy to fund road works. It was suppose to last an x amount of years. It’s just they haven’t taken it off as it commands great funding to the government.
In response to Prius being great for maintenance etc. think again. Here at work they thought it was a good idea to upgrade their pool cars to the green technology. However, as time went by they did their sums and worked out that the green car cost them more to run/operate/maintain than the petrol/diesel counterparts. They are being replaced quick smart.
August 8th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
I have just bought a Jeep Cherokee turbo diesel. What a great engine!! I have only just filled the tank for the first time and I did 725 km for 68.2 litres. That is 9.41 l/100km or 30.1 MPG and most around the city. Fantastic!! And since man-made CO2 emissions only make up
August 8th, 2007 at 8:33 pm
I sold my thirsty 100 series landcruiser Petrol and bought a Jeep Cherokee Turbo Diesel, it is a great engine……when its going, but after 14 mths of trouble with this vehicle and costantly taking it back to the dealer to have it rectified under warranty, my wife and I had enough and got rid of the LEMON. We now drive a 5 year old BMW 325i and its an absolute joy, with no squeeks and rattles that the Jeep had in abundance due to its shoddy build quality and the fuel economy is great too, on a recent trip to Coffs Hbr it returned 7.6 litres / 100km, and we really don’t miss the smelly oily dirty visits to the diesel bowser either, and so far the downsize seems to be working for us.
August 10th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Diesel vehicle have improved a lot in the past few years, compared to the dirty and gutless one tonners of the ’80s. Like Chris, I drive a 3 litre diesel Rodeo ute, and would not go back to petrol. Economical and flexible, they are good to drive. The only downside is the greedy pricing policies of oil companies & governments. I cannot understand why the local car manufacturers have not been more forward thinking about their power plants, if they made a diesel Falcon I would buy one tomorrow! The VW Golf is great, but just too small to suit all the needs of a single car family.
August 11th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
About 7 years ago, I bought a 1981 Peugeot diesel. Yes, it is old diesel technology, and so probably a bit dirty smog wise, but the fuel economy is still unbelievable.
On a recent trip from Melbourne to Wagga Wagga with a 2 day stop over in the Victorian highlands, I used about 7.7 litres/100km. That was with three children and a FULLY loaded boot! I am still amazed.
Claire, yes, things will go wrong but they will with any mechanical device. My experience is that diesel engines just need to be treated differently to petrol engines. Don’t let them overheat! (Bad experience
)
The new Renault Megane diesel looks like the way to go if you want a medium sized car. Better performance, economy, features than the Golf (by a mile, country or otherwise!).
Cheers
August 11th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
I converted my Falcon van to LPG 15 years ago. Since then I have travelled 620,000 Km on all types of city and country roads without any problems with the gas system apart from a hose that cost $40 to replace. The current engine has done 325,000 Km wthout any head or valve problems and still runs as well as it did the day it was built, the only parts requiring replacement have been the timing chain and two oil seals.which I put down to a combination of LPG and synthetic oil. The van loaded, weighs 2200 Kg and uses an av. of 20 litres per 100 Km. I estimate that over the 15 years I have saved at least $40,000 using LPG I think that if you are driving more than thirty or forty thousand Km per year LPG is hard to beat.
August 13th, 2007 at 10:44 pm
We were thinking of downgrading to a smaller car back in 2000 but we decided we preferred the comfort of the larger car so purchased a Falcon AU and immediately after the 1st service had it converted to LPG. It was the best move ever and we have the convenience of duel fuels, if by chance we are in woop-woop and they don’t do gas. The car is now 7 years old and has 210,000km on the clock. There is no power loss and only once we had a problem with switching from petrol to LPG which needed new spark plug leads.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Hi
Does anyone know of an “expert” at tuning up LPG to get the best out of it?
I am not totally happy having to “rev” the engine on starting to switch from petrol to LPG and having to stop the car when switching to petrol if the LPG runs out while I am driving.
I live in the St George district in Sydney - any suggestions?
November 30th, 2007 at 1:02 am
RE SuperMoosie Says: - Comment August 1st, 2007 at 2:18 pm
“As for diesel being less refined than petrol. yes the diesel condenses lower down in the fractionating column when refining, but is refined has just same as petrol. The cost increase is because the refiners had to do a very costly upgrade to their refinerys to develop low sulffer Diesel and the higher prices are just them getting their return on their investment.”
From Motormouth
Motormouth - Which oil company employs you to peddle their nonsense? Oil companies have had to refine diesel to a higher level in Europe and Japan for years - Japanese diesel vehicles sent to Australia have had to be detuned to cope with our antiquated diesel refining methods. The technology has been available to oil companies all that time. Only a complacent and compliant federal government let them get away with it and swallowed the line about the expensive up grade story - it’s baloney.
On the question of fuel prices - late last week (25/11/07) I paid 149.9 for diesel at a Caltex owned station in Gosford (I checked that they owned it). Just down the road into the city, an independent station was charging 139.9 for diesel and 134.9 for bio-diesel. Unfortunately I was very low on fuel and had to stop at the first station in Gosford - baaddd mistake! Oh, and by the way a very small sign on the Caltex diesel pump mentioned that it was 2% bio-diesel - no discount for that!. Who says the large American and other cartel members aren’t ripping off the motorists? Oh for an ACCC with more powers.
See also the post of Chris - August 5th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
on his comments about prices of diesel in other States.
Unlike you motormouth, I have put my name to my comments!
May 6th, 2008 at 11:28 am
I have just bought a new VW Golf GT Sport 2.0L TDi Diesel 6 speed auto. Utterly fantastic. I drive 60 km to and from work each day on Canberra’s roads so I spend a lot of time at over 100 kph. Economy is less than 6 L/100Km all the time with less than 5 L/100Km when I cruise home. The acceleration is 0 100 in 8 seconds. Most of my driving is spent in 6th gear and I don’t spend all my time having to change gears continuously. Too many comments have confused old technology trucks and buses with new tech turbo-diesels. You will not see any black smoke coming out of my diesel and compared to my V6 and V8 Commodores I am using up to half the fuel with a still spacious car. Try a diesel Golf and you won’t be sorry and diesels consistently leave current hybrids for dead in the fuel economy stakes. Hybrids are best for purely jam-packed Sydney driving. I leave home before 7.30am to miss even Canberra’s minor traffic problems and cruise home at 3.30pm with no traffic at all.