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	<title>Comments on: Has Electronic Stability Control helped you?</title>
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	<description>Road safety, road rules, fuels, car care and everyday driving - NRMA Motoring &#38; Services</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-7540</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Dec 2011 12:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-7540</guid>
		<description>ESC is horrible if you know how to drive.  I grew up driving on gravel roads and in winter with a rear wheel drive vehicle and my father taught me how to handle skids when I was 14 in a parkinglot during the winter.  My new car with ESC is horrible as I am ALWAYS fighting my breaks even with it &quot;turned off&quot; which actually means turned down. It has almost placed me in a ditch as it was trying to make my car go straight when I was trying to go around a corner but fortunately steering will dominate breaks in an overskid.  It is a good feature for some but the driver should have the ability to turn it off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC is horrible if you know how to drive.  I grew up driving on gravel roads and in winter with a rear wheel drive vehicle and my father taught me how to handle skids when I was 14 in a parkinglot during the winter.  My new car with ESC is horrible as I am ALWAYS fighting my breaks even with it &#8220;turned off&#8221; which actually means turned down. It has almost placed me in a ditch as it was trying to make my car go straight when I was trying to go around a corner but fortunately steering will dominate breaks in an overskid.  It is a good feature for some but the driver should have the ability to turn it off.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3671</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jun 2010 03:21:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3671</guid>
		<description>Training is the key to a good driver, not electronic aid. In the event that the cars electronics malfunction or fail and the driver doesn&#039;t know how to manage the car in an emergency without the &quot;safety&quot; systems then how is that person expected to control the vehicle.

Personally i have purchased a car with ESC and never bothered to turn it off. within a week it nearly caused 3 accidents due to poor weather and not activating fast enough. on all 3 occasions the back of the car slid sideways both in a straight line and while rounding a corner. While on two occasions it didn&#039;t activate at all. the time it decided to activate i was turning right and the rear of the car slid out and i compensated due to training. the ESC then turned on while i had the wheel turned and nearly put the car into a concrete power pole. my wife now is too scared to drive my car in case she forgets to turn off the ESC.

We need to train people how to manage cars in all conditions. we need compulsory advanced driver training rather than more gizmos and gadgets to go wrong or play with on a car. 

Personally my next car purchase will not have ABS ESC and traction control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Training is the key to a good driver, not electronic aid. In the event that the cars electronics malfunction or fail and the driver doesn&#8217;t know how to manage the car in an emergency without the &#8220;safety&#8221; systems then how is that person expected to control the vehicle.</p>
<p>Personally i have purchased a car with ESC and never bothered to turn it off. within a week it nearly caused 3 accidents due to poor weather and not activating fast enough. on all 3 occasions the back of the car slid sideways both in a straight line and while rounding a corner. While on two occasions it didn&#8217;t activate at all. the time it decided to activate i was turning right and the rear of the car slid out and i compensated due to training. the ESC then turned on while i had the wheel turned and nearly put the car into a concrete power pole. my wife now is too scared to drive my car in case she forgets to turn off the ESC.</p>
<p>We need to train people how to manage cars in all conditions. we need compulsory advanced driver training rather than more gizmos and gadgets to go wrong or play with on a car. </p>
<p>Personally my next car purchase will not have ABS ESC and traction control.</p>
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		<title>By: S_type_supercharged</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3195</link>
		<dc:creator>S_type_supercharged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3195</guid>
		<description>Dear Den,
If your young one would get your car on a saturday night and knowing that  he / she is quite inexperienced and again YOU knowing that he/ she will try it a bit down the road; what would you preffer to lend? a car with or without ESC?
I don&#039;t mean no disrespect, but
&quot;Life is easy when judgemental...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Den,<br />
If your young one would get your car on a saturday night and knowing that  he / she is quite inexperienced and again YOU knowing that he/ she will try it a bit down the road; what would you preffer to lend? a car with or without ESC?<br />
I don&#8217;t mean no disrespect, but<br />
&#8220;Life is easy when judgemental&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: S_type_supercharged</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3194</link>
		<dc:creator>S_type_supercharged</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 20:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3194</guid>
		<description>I can say that the DSC (dynamic) is sometimes a pain, mainly when attempting slide cornering. is such a turn off in some of the situations when I forget to switch it off. Once in a blue moon when the road permits it, after preparing the right speed, attitude and angle: boom!!! the DSC kicks in and spoils the fun. On the other hand in some situations I was so happy of having it on!!! As a conclusion I think is the best thing since sliced bread, airbags and ABS in this specific order. I rather have it annoying me for a few seconds when it kicks in when it shouldn&#039;t, but is a real life saviour.  I wouldn&#039;t get another car without DSC SRS ABS and airbags. I am still thinking about the new radar/ sonar emergency stop driver overide, DISTRONYC PLUS (BAP) BRAKE ASSIST PLUS. It&#039;s soon going to be SKYNET!!! Unpluggggg itttt!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can say that the DSC (dynamic) is sometimes a pain, mainly when attempting slide cornering. is such a turn off in some of the situations when I forget to switch it off. Once in a blue moon when the road permits it, after preparing the right speed, attitude and angle: boom!!! the DSC kicks in and spoils the fun. On the other hand in some situations I was so happy of having it on!!! As a conclusion I think is the best thing since sliced bread, airbags and ABS in this specific order. I rather have it annoying me for a few seconds when it kicks in when it shouldn&#8217;t, but is a real life saviour.  I wouldn&#8217;t get another car without DSC SRS ABS and airbags. I am still thinking about the new radar/ sonar emergency stop driver overide, DISTRONYC PLUS (BAP) BRAKE ASSIST PLUS. It&#8217;s soon going to be SKYNET!!! Unpluggggg itttt!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: colleen</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3185</link>
		<dc:creator>colleen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 22:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-3185</guid>
		<description>I just slid off the road due to my ESC feature.  I started to slide and my car took over and I could not get out of the slide.  My ESC kicked in and my car breaked on its own.  Had it not breaked I probably could have got out of it.  I now know to turn it off in very icy conditions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just slid off the road due to my ESC feature.  I started to slide and my car took over and I could not get out of the slide.  My ESC kicked in and my car breaked on its own.  Had it not breaked I probably could have got out of it.  I now know to turn it off in very icy conditions.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1685</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 11:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1685</guid>
		<description>ESC is great, on road.  However, I&#039;m a firm believer that any car fitted wit it should have the ability to have it switched off - fully.  My 2008 X-trail has the &#039;ESP OFF&#039; button, but it only partially turns off the system.

I got bogged with the family in some soft mud a few months ago - and the ESP applied brakes each time I tried to power out of the mud, stalling the engine.  If it wasn&#039;t for some marginal mobile phone coverage, we could have been in serious trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC is great, on road.  However, I&#8217;m a firm believer that any car fitted wit it should have the ability to have it switched off &#8211; fully.  My 2008 X-trail has the &#8216;ESP OFF&#8217; button, but it only partially turns off the system.</p>
<p>I got bogged with the family in some soft mud a few months ago &#8211; and the ESP applied brakes each time I tried to power out of the mud, stalling the engine.  If it wasn&#8217;t for some marginal mobile phone coverage, we could have been in serious trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Den</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1479</link>
		<dc:creator>Den</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1479</guid>
		<description>ESC should actually be banned. It&#039;s making excuses for bad drivers and eventually due to trickle down, it will be impossible for drivers to LEARN how to react in an emergency. Most drivers can barely drive in a straight line now. It will be far far worse as ESC gains momentum. 

 Electronics are already causing a rash of &quot;chain reaction accidents&quot; here in Canada (Ontario) due to people following too close in winter conditions expecting garbage like ESC to save their carelessness. It&#039;s be far more effective to have EVERY drive involved in a 100 car crash charged with careless driving then adding electronic excuses. If people HAD to learn to control their vehicles, they might just be a little more careful on the road.

 ESC has taken the &quot;Oh Sh**&quot; factor out when someone is driving too fast in slippery conditions so now when they DO lose control, they&#039;re going a LOT faster! And have learned NOTHING as the stability control covers up their bad driving skills.

 Want better drivers? Ban ESC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC should actually be banned. It&#8217;s making excuses for bad drivers and eventually due to trickle down, it will be impossible for drivers to LEARN how to react in an emergency. Most drivers can barely drive in a straight line now. It will be far far worse as ESC gains momentum. </p>
<p> Electronics are already causing a rash of &#8220;chain reaction accidents&#8221; here in Canada (Ontario) due to people following too close in winter conditions expecting garbage like ESC to save their carelessness. It&#8217;s be far more effective to have EVERY drive involved in a 100 car crash charged with careless driving then adding electronic excuses. If people HAD to learn to control their vehicles, they might just be a little more careful on the road.</p>
<p> ESC has taken the &#8220;Oh Sh**&#8221; factor out when someone is driving too fast in slippery conditions so now when they DO lose control, they&#8217;re going a LOT faster! And have learned NOTHING as the stability control covers up their bad driving skills.</p>
<p> Want better drivers? Ban ESC.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-669</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s all very well saying that ESP needs to be mandatory fitment and not optional equipment. I believe it should also be non-switchable, like ABS. I annoys me when many motoring writers praise the virtues of ESP and it&#039;s life-saving abilities, then criticise another car for it&#039;s ESP being too intrusive. Isn&#039;t that a bit like saying a car has brakes that are too good? Being able to swich off ESP so you can &#039;have some fun&#039; is not sending a good message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all very well saying that ESP needs to be mandatory fitment and not optional equipment. I believe it should also be non-switchable, like ABS. I annoys me when many motoring writers praise the virtues of ESP and it&#8217;s life-saving abilities, then criticise another car for it&#8217;s ESP being too intrusive. Isn&#8217;t that a bit like saying a car has brakes that are too good? Being able to swich off ESP so you can &#8216;have some fun&#8217; is not sending a good message.</p>
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		<title>By: ROBERT CAMPBELL</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>ROBERT CAMPBELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-396</guid>
		<description>I THINK IT IS DISGUSTING THAT A TOYOTA PRIUS OR HONDA DID NOT GET ANY MENTION IN YOUR CAR AWARDS.
THE NRMA SHOULD BE LEADING THE CHARGE FOR A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE BY THE MANUFACTURERS, AND YET YOU EVEN GIVE AN AWARD TO THE 4WD TRACTORS THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN ON OUR ROADS.
I SAVE $500-$600 A MONTH IN FUEL BILLS AND THAT IS JUST IN MY PRIUS ALONE, I AM DOING MY BIT TO REDUCE POLUTION AS WELL... BUT YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO CREATE AWARENESS IN THE CONSUMER AND MAKE THE HOLDEN, FORD, ETC ETC MOVE INTO THIS FIELD.
MAYBE HOLDEN &amp; FORD WILL COME UP WITH A HYBRID V8 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT???? IT&#039;S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT FROM THEM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I THINK IT IS DISGUSTING THAT A TOYOTA PRIUS OR HONDA DID NOT GET ANY MENTION IN YOUR CAR AWARDS.<br />
THE NRMA SHOULD BE LEADING THE CHARGE FOR A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE BY THE MANUFACTURERS, AND YET YOU EVEN GIVE AN AWARD TO THE 4WD TRACTORS THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN ON OUR ROADS.<br />
I SAVE $500-$600 A MONTH IN FUEL BILLS AND THAT IS JUST IN MY PRIUS ALONE, I AM DOING MY BIT TO REDUCE POLUTION AS WELL&#8230; BUT YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO CREATE AWARENESS IN THE CONSUMER AND MAKE THE HOLDEN, FORD, ETC ETC MOVE INTO THIS FIELD.<br />
MAYBE HOLDEN &amp; FORD WILL COME UP WITH A HYBRID V8 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT???? IT&#8217;S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT FROM THEM.</p>
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		<title>By: Theo Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Experienced it. Don&#039;t like it. But I don&#039;t like ABS and power steering either.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Observations have already made that driver ed and properly engineered, constructed purpose built vehicles are basic to driver efficiency, enjoyment, for those of us who travel beyond the madding urban fringe, putting our cars into challenging and genuine off-road terrain. And I mean dinkum Aussie outback ruts and &#039;highways&#039; like the Arnhem from Mataranka and the Connie Sue into the Great Victoria. Even a lot of our prized High Country and the terrain around the Flinders, and up through the Kimberley demands proper cars with decent design and quality engineering as well as honest capability.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Army has long favoured the rugged capability of the traditional Land Rover because of its lack of gadgetry and its capability, with after market quality control bugs sorted of course.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the Land Rover Defender is a proper 4WD with the ruggedness to withstand constant corrugations, ruts, outback tracks, flint sharded mountains, rivers and desert.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Army also insists its drivers learn how to drive, no matter what sort of civilian licence or training they might have. And there&#039;s the rub. A civilian licence in Australia is mostly bought in the ribbon coastal fringe cities where the skill of motoring and joy of driving are inconclusive; where the choice of vehicle is - as demonstrated on the NRMA&#039;s webpages - dictated as much by penny pinching as it is by marketing fashion and that distracting furphy of &#039;residual value&#039;.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure, we pay lip service to driver education, and give a cusory nod to high school driver ed, while at the same deploring the aggregate statistics of under-25 year age group road accident involvement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;City driving schools rarely take pupils out onto the highways, never into the rugged mountain ranges and ball-bearing slippery rural tracks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Instructors rarely demonstrate skid pan correction procedure and rear wheel steering. Not that there&#039;s much opportunity to do so: vehicle manufacturers continue to flog lighter, flimsier, cars that rely on wayward front wheel drive torque steer and power steering. This last &#039;feature&#039; is unaccountably questionable for such lightweights. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, without the bother of Federal Transport Departmental guidelines for graded vehicle licensing beyond the basically unsatisfactory &#039;P&#039; plate, automatic-manual, national heavy vehicle, bus and articulated categories the ancillary and automatic &#039;safety&#039; wizardy of ABS/stability controls are an optimistic fallback at best. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Frustrated with the hazard that ABS provokes on long outback stretches such as the Plenty Highway where directional stability is frequently challenged by the road surface I&#039;ve resorted to disconnecting the system. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Far better to be able first to drive according to the basics, if possible down to the nub of Pirsig&#039;s &#039;Zen and the Art of...&quot;, especially when the gadgetry fails and driver awareness and ability are taxed. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, better and safer cars aren&#039;t made by cost-cutting accountants. Arthur H. illustrated this in his epic novel about the car industry. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While gadgetry preoccupies the Japanese and the German auto makers, Australia has a far greater need for driver training and  awareness skills graduated according to terrain and vehicle.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, the safest vehicle in Australia might therefore be a Robinson helicopter.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Experienced it. Don&#8217;t like it. But I don&#8217;t like ABS and power steering either.</p>
<p>Observations have already made that driver ed and properly engineered, constructed purpose built vehicles are basic to driver efficiency, enjoyment, for those of us who travel beyond the madding urban fringe, putting our cars into challenging and genuine off-road terrain. And I mean dinkum Aussie outback ruts and &#8216;highways&#8217; like the Arnhem from Mataranka and the Connie Sue into the Great Victoria. Even a lot of our prized High Country and the terrain around the Flinders, and up through the Kimberley demands proper cars with decent design and quality engineering as well as honest capability.</p>
<p>The Army has long favoured the rugged capability of the traditional Land Rover because of its lack of gadgetry and its capability, with after market quality control bugs sorted of course.</p>
<p>But the Land Rover Defender is a proper 4WD with the ruggedness to withstand constant corrugations, ruts, outback tracks, flint sharded mountains, rivers and desert.</p>
<p>The Army also insists its drivers learn how to drive, no matter what sort of civilian licence or training they might have. And there&#8217;s the rub. A civilian licence in Australia is mostly bought in the ribbon coastal fringe cities where the skill of motoring and joy of driving are inconclusive; where the choice of vehicle is &#8211; as demonstrated on the NRMA&#8217;s webpages &#8211; dictated as much by penny pinching as it is by marketing fashion and that distracting furphy of &#8216;residual value&#8217;.</p>
<p>Sure, we pay lip service to driver education, and give a cusory nod to high school driver ed, while at the same deploring the aggregate statistics of under-25 year age group road accident involvement.</p>
<p>City driving schools rarely take pupils out onto the highways, never into the rugged mountain ranges and ball-bearing slippery rural tracks.</p>
<p>Instructors rarely demonstrate skid pan correction procedure and rear wheel steering. Not that there&#8217;s much opportunity to do so: vehicle manufacturers continue to flog lighter, flimsier, cars that rely on wayward front wheel drive torque steer and power steering. This last &#8216;feature&#8217; is unaccountably questionable for such lightweights. </p>
<p>So, without the bother of Federal Transport Departmental guidelines for graded vehicle licensing beyond the basically unsatisfactory &#8216;P&#8217; plate, automatic-manual, national heavy vehicle, bus and articulated categories the ancillary and automatic &#8216;safety&#8217; wizardy of ABS/stability controls are an optimistic fallback at best. </p>
<p>Frustrated with the hazard that ABS provokes on long outback stretches such as the Plenty Highway where directional stability is frequently challenged by the road surface I&#8217;ve resorted to disconnecting the system. </p>
<p>Far better to be able first to drive according to the basics, if possible down to the nub of Pirsig&#8217;s &#8216;Zen and the Art of&#8230;&#8221;, especially when the gadgetry fails and driver awareness and ability are taxed. </p>
<p>Of course, better and safer cars aren&#8217;t made by cost-cutting accountants. Arthur H. illustrated this in his epic novel about the car industry. </p>
<p>While gadgetry preoccupies the Japanese and the German auto makers, Australia has a far greater need for driver training and  awareness skills graduated according to terrain and vehicle.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the safest vehicle in Australia might therefore be a Robinson helicopter.</p>
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