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	<title>Comments on: Has Electronic Stability Control helped you?</title>
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	<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/</link>
	<description>Blog about Motoring, Travel and Member Issues in NSW, Australia - by NRMA Motoring and Services</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Den</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1479</link>
		<dc:creator>Den</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 10:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-1479</guid>
		<description>ESC should actually be banned. It's making excuses for bad drivers and eventually due to trickle down, it will be impossible for drivers to LEARN how to react in an emergency. Most drivers can barely drive in a straight line now. It will be far far worse as ESC gains momentum. 

 Electronics are already causing a rash of "chain reaction accidents" here in Canada (Ontario) due to people following too close in winter conditions expecting garbage like ESC to save their carelessness. It's be far more effective to have EVERY drive involved in a 100 car crash charged with careless driving then adding electronic excuses. If people HAD to learn to control their vehicles, they might just be a little more careful on the road.

 ESC has taken the "Oh Sh**" factor out when someone is driving too fast in slippery conditions so now when they DO lose control, they're going a LOT faster! And have learned NOTHING as the stability control covers up their bad driving skills.

 Want better drivers? Ban ESC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC should actually be banned. It&#8217;s making excuses for bad drivers and eventually due to trickle down, it will be impossible for drivers to LEARN how to react in an emergency. Most drivers can barely drive in a straight line now. It will be far far worse as ESC gains momentum. </p>
<p> Electronics are already causing a rash of &#8220;chain reaction accidents&#8221; here in Canada (Ontario) due to people following too close in winter conditions expecting garbage like ESC to save their carelessness. It&#8217;s be far more effective to have EVERY drive involved in a 100 car crash charged with careless driving then adding electronic excuses. If people HAD to learn to control their vehicles, they might just be a little more careful on the road.</p>
<p> ESC has taken the &#8220;Oh Sh**&#8221; factor out when someone is driving too fast in slippery conditions so now when they DO lose control, they&#8217;re going a LOT faster! And have learned NOTHING as the stability control covers up their bad driving skills.</p>
<p> Want better drivers? Ban ESC.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-669</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 20:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-669</guid>
		<description>It's all very well saying that ESP needs to be mandatory fitment and not optional equipment. I believe it should also be non-switchable, like ABS. I annoys me when many motoring writers praise the virtues of ESP and it's life-saving abilities, then criticise another car for it's ESP being too intrusive. Isn't that a bit like saying a car has brakes that are too good? Being able to swich off ESP so you can 'have some fun' is not sending a good message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s all very well saying that ESP needs to be mandatory fitment and not optional equipment. I believe it should also be non-switchable, like ABS. I annoys me when many motoring writers praise the virtues of ESP and it&#8217;s life-saving abilities, then criticise another car for it&#8217;s ESP being too intrusive. Isn&#8217;t that a bit like saying a car has brakes that are too good? Being able to swich off ESP so you can &#8216;have some fun&#8217; is not sending a good message.</p>
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		<title>By: ROBERT CAMPBELL</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-396</link>
		<dc:creator>ROBERT CAMPBELL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 00:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-396</guid>
		<description>I THINK IT IS DISGUSTING THAT A TOYOTA PRIUS OR HONDA DID NOT GET ANY MENTION IN YOUR CAR AWARDS.
THE NRMA SHOULD BE LEADING THE CHARGE FOR A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE BY THE MANUFACTURERS, AND YET YOU EVEN GIVE AN AWARD TO THE 4WD TRACTORS THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN ON OUR ROADS.
I SAVE $500-$600 A MONTH IN FUEL BILLS AND THAT IS JUST IN MY PRIUS ALONE, I AM DOING MY BIT TO REDUCE POLUTION AS WELL... BUT YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO CREATE AWARENESS IN THE CONSUMER AND MAKE THE HOLDEN, FORD, ETC ETC MOVE INTO THIS FIELD.
MAYBE HOLDEN &#38; FORD WILL COME UP WITH A HYBRID V8 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT???? IT'S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT FROM THEM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I THINK IT IS DISGUSTING THAT A TOYOTA PRIUS OR HONDA DID NOT GET ANY MENTION IN YOUR CAR AWARDS.<br />
THE NRMA SHOULD BE LEADING THE CHARGE FOR A CHANGE OF ATTITUDE BY THE MANUFACTURERS, AND YET YOU EVEN GIVE AN AWARD TO THE 4WD TRACTORS THAT ARE BEING DRIVEN ON OUR ROADS.<br />
I SAVE $500-$600 A MONTH IN FUEL BILLS AND THAT IS JUST IN MY PRIUS ALONE, I AM DOING MY BIT TO REDUCE POLUTION AS WELL&#8230; BUT YOU ARE NOT TRYING TO CREATE AWARENESS IN THE CONSUMER AND MAKE THE HOLDEN, FORD, ETC ETC MOVE INTO THIS FIELD.<br />
MAYBE HOLDEN &amp; FORD WILL COME UP WITH A HYBRID V8 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT???? IT&#8217;S WHAT I WOULD EXPECT FROM THEM.</p>
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		<title>By: Theo Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-378</link>
		<dc:creator>Theo Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 09:27:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-378</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Experienced it. Don't like it. But I don't like ABS and power steering either.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Observations have already made that driver ed and properly engineered, constructed purpose built vehicles are basic to driver efficiency, enjoyment, for those of us who travel beyond the madding urban fringe, putting our cars into challenging and genuine off-road terrain. And I mean dinkum Aussie outback ruts and 'highways' like the Arnhem from Mataranka and the Connie Sue into the Great Victoria. Even a lot of our prized High Country and the terrain around the Flinders, and up through the Kimberley demands proper cars with decent design and quality engineering as well as honest capability.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Army has long favoured the rugged capability of the traditional Land Rover because of its lack of gadgetry and its capability, with after market quality control bugs sorted of course.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;But the Land Rover Defender is a proper 4WD with the ruggedness to withstand constant corrugations, ruts, outback tracks, flint sharded mountains, rivers and desert.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The Army also insists its drivers learn how to drive, no matter what sort of civilian licence or training they might have. And there's the rub. A civilian licence in Australia is mostly bought in the ribbon coastal fringe cities where the skill of motoring and joy of driving are inconclusive; where the choice of vehicle is - as demonstrated on the NRMA's webpages - dictated as much by penny pinching as it is by marketing fashion and that distracting furphy of 'residual value'.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Sure, we pay lip service to driver education, and give a cusory nod to high school driver ed, while at the same deploring the aggregate statistics of under-25 year age group road accident involvement.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;City driving schools rarely take pupils out onto the highways, never into the rugged mountain ranges and ball-bearing slippery rural tracks.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Instructors rarely demonstrate skid pan correction procedure and rear wheel steering. Not that there's much opportunity to do so: vehicle manufacturers continue to flog lighter, flimsier, cars that rely on wayward front wheel drive torque steer and power steering. This last 'feature' is unaccountably questionable for such lightweights. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;So, without the bother of Federal Transport Departmental guidelines for graded vehicle licensing beyond the basically unsatisfactory 'P' plate, automatic-manual, national heavy vehicle, bus and articulated categories the ancillary and automatic 'safety' wizardy of ABS/stability controls are an optimistic fallback at best. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Frustrated with the hazard that ABS provokes on long outback stretches such as the Plenty Highway where directional stability is frequently challenged by the road surface I've resorted to disconnecting the system. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Far better to be able first to drive according to the basics, if possible down to the nub of Pirsig's 'Zen and the Art of...", especially when the gadgetry fails and driver awareness and ability are taxed. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Of course, better and safer cars aren't made by cost-cutting accountants. Arthur H. illustrated this in his epic novel about the car industry. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;While gadgetry preoccupies the Japanese and the German auto makers, Australia has a far greater need for driver training and  awareness skills graduated according to terrain and vehicle.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;On the other hand, the safest vehicle in Australia might therefore be a Robinson helicopter.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Experienced it. Don&#8217;t like it. But I don&#8217;t like ABS and power steering either.</p>
<p>Observations have already made that driver ed and properly engineered, constructed purpose built vehicles are basic to driver efficiency, enjoyment, for those of us who travel beyond the madding urban fringe, putting our cars into challenging and genuine off-road terrain. And I mean dinkum Aussie outback ruts and &#8216;highways&#8217; like the Arnhem from Mataranka and the Connie Sue into the Great Victoria. Even a lot of our prized High Country and the terrain around the Flinders, and up through the Kimberley demands proper cars with decent design and quality engineering as well as honest capability.</p>
<p>The Army has long favoured the rugged capability of the traditional Land Rover because of its lack of gadgetry and its capability, with after market quality control bugs sorted of course.</p>
<p>But the Land Rover Defender is a proper 4WD with the ruggedness to withstand constant corrugations, ruts, outback tracks, flint sharded mountains, rivers and desert.</p>
<p>The Army also insists its drivers learn how to drive, no matter what sort of civilian licence or training they might have. And there&#8217;s the rub. A civilian licence in Australia is mostly bought in the ribbon coastal fringe cities where the skill of motoring and joy of driving are inconclusive; where the choice of vehicle is - as demonstrated on the NRMA&#8217;s webpages - dictated as much by penny pinching as it is by marketing fashion and that distracting furphy of &#8216;residual value&#8217;.</p>
<p>Sure, we pay lip service to driver education, and give a cusory nod to high school driver ed, while at the same deploring the aggregate statistics of under-25 year age group road accident involvement.</p>
<p>City driving schools rarely take pupils out onto the highways, never into the rugged mountain ranges and ball-bearing slippery rural tracks.</p>
<p>Instructors rarely demonstrate skid pan correction procedure and rear wheel steering. Not that there&#8217;s much opportunity to do so: vehicle manufacturers continue to flog lighter, flimsier, cars that rely on wayward front wheel drive torque steer and power steering. This last &#8216;feature&#8217; is unaccountably questionable for such lightweights. </p>
<p>So, without the bother of Federal Transport Departmental guidelines for graded vehicle licensing beyond the basically unsatisfactory &#8216;P&#8217; plate, automatic-manual, national heavy vehicle, bus and articulated categories the ancillary and automatic &#8217;safety&#8217; wizardy of ABS/stability controls are an optimistic fallback at best. </p>
<p>Frustrated with the hazard that ABS provokes on long outback stretches such as the Plenty Highway where directional stability is frequently challenged by the road surface I&#8217;ve resorted to disconnecting the system. </p>
<p>Far better to be able first to drive according to the basics, if possible down to the nub of Pirsig&#8217;s &#8216;Zen and the Art of&#8230;&#8221;, especially when the gadgetry fails and driver awareness and ability are taxed. </p>
<p>Of course, better and safer cars aren&#8217;t made by cost-cutting accountants. Arthur H. illustrated this in his epic novel about the car industry. </p>
<p>While gadgetry preoccupies the Japanese and the German auto makers, Australia has a far greater need for driver training and  awareness skills graduated according to terrain and vehicle.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the safest vehicle in Australia might therefore be a Robinson helicopter.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-374</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-374</guid>
		<description>ESC should be standard especially on 4WDs/softroaders. I drive a Golf GTI (ESC) and a Nissan X-trail (No ESC). The X-trail feels like a wobbly blancmange after the gti and I find myself nursing it around corners on twistier roads. The couple of occasions I've needed to take emergency action such as braking to avoid wildlife/P-plater pulling out of junction have been nerve jangling experiences which involved fighting with the steering wheel to keep control. ESC would have been a great help in these situations and would certainly benefit cars with poorer handling credentials.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC should be standard especially on 4WDs/softroaders. I drive a Golf GTI (ESC) and a Nissan X-trail (No ESC). The X-trail feels like a wobbly blancmange after the gti and I find myself nursing it around corners on twistier roads. The couple of occasions I&#8217;ve needed to take emergency action such as braking to avoid wildlife/P-plater pulling out of junction have been nerve jangling experiences which involved fighting with the steering wheel to keep control. ESC would have been a great help in these situations and would certainly benefit cars with poorer handling credentials.</p>
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		<title>By: Debb</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-370</link>
		<dc:creator>Debb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 03:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-370</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;ESC SHOULD BE STANDARD!&lt;br /&gt;
it shouldnt be optional bcause it is not an accessory!&lt;br /&gt;
anything safety wise should be implemented immediately.&lt;br /&gt;
My care has ESC and while i have used it thus far (good thing i guess) I feel safer knowing i will be able to control my car with extra support.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC SHOULD BE STANDARD!<br />
it shouldnt be optional bcause it is not an accessory!<br />
anything safety wise should be implemented immediately.<br />
My care has ESC and while i have used it thus far (good thing i guess) I feel safer knowing i will be able to control my car with extra support.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Castles</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Castles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-369</guid>
		<description>I purchased a Mazda3 2.3SP  in December last year - I always buy Japanese cars. I had to order it as VSC was an option - I would have thought it should be standard. In some situations it is desirable to turn it off - it can be turned off but always comes on when the engine is restarted. 
I am concerned that it lowers driver skill as driving a cars with and without VSC could create problems for low skill / experienced drivers. It costs very little for manufacturers to add VSC to a car that has ABS &#38; traction control. I think within 3 years it will be standard on all cars. The NRMA can help by promoting its desirability</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I purchased a Mazda3 2.3SP  in December last year - I always buy Japanese cars. I had to order it as VSC was an option - I would have thought it should be standard. In some situations it is desirable to turn it off - it can be turned off but always comes on when the engine is restarted.<br />
I am concerned that it lowers driver skill as driving a cars with and without VSC could create problems for low skill / experienced drivers. It costs very little for manufacturers to add VSC to a car that has ABS &amp; traction control. I think within 3 years it will be standard on all cars. The NRMA can help by promoting its desirability</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-368</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:24:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-368</guid>
		<description>I have had stability control for six years with MY01 Subaru Outback H6 (VDC Vehicle Dynamic Control). It works quietly and transparently in the background and came into play twice; the first time on a dirt track in the Upper Hunter Valley and the second time when I blew an bearing on a boat trailer ... the VDC averted a potenial jack knife.  I bought the H6 with safety in mind (VDC, four airbags, chassis design etc) and would not buy another vehicle without it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have had stability control for six years with MY01 Subaru Outback H6 (VDC Vehicle Dynamic Control). It works quietly and transparently in the background and came into play twice; the first time on a dirt track in the Upper Hunter Valley and the second time when I blew an bearing on a boat trailer &#8230; the VDC averted a potenial jack knife.  I bought the H6 with safety in mind (VDC, four airbags, chassis design etc) and would not buy another vehicle without it.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-367</guid>
		<description>ESC, ABS, BA, Side curtain and front airbags... I want everything for any future vehicle... In direct reply to your question, I personally have never felt or known the ESC (known as ESP by Renault) in my wifes Renault Laguna to cut in and I am not aware that it has while she is driving (she is the principle driver) but the the fact that the vehicle was fitted with all that stuff as standard 5 years ago when we bought it is the reason we did buy it (plus it is a V6). It means that I can rest a little easier while mum's taxi is transporting my wife and 2 kids. At the time we bought it only the europeans, the Mazda 6 and the Accord Euro offered such features and I did not want a 4 cylinder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ESC, ABS, BA, Side curtain and front airbags&#8230; I want everything for any future vehicle&#8230; In direct reply to your question, I personally have never felt or known the ESC (known as ESP by Renault) in my wifes Renault Laguna to cut in and I am not aware that it has while she is driving (she is the principle driver) but the the fact that the vehicle was fitted with all that stuff as standard 5 years ago when we bought it is the reason we did buy it (plus it is a V6). It means that I can rest a little easier while mum&#8217;s taxi is transporting my wife and 2 kids. At the time we bought it only the europeans, the Mazda 6 and the Accord Euro offered such features and I did not want a 4 cylinder.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mynrmacommunity.com/motoring/2007/11/27/has-electronic-stability-control-helped-you/#comment-366</guid>
		<description>As already stated I do think all new cars should come standard with ESC. Not every driving situation can be controlled and this new research shows how much it does help. 

Hopefully this is something NRMA will push for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As already stated I do think all new cars should come standard with ESC. Not every driving situation can be controlled and this new research shows how much it does help. </p>
<p>Hopefully this is something NRMA will push for.</p>
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