A News Limited investigation has found the NSW Government made $312 million in revenue from motorists in the last financial year. Six years ago the figure was less than half that, at $118 million.
Speed and red light cameras, police-issued speeding fines, parking fines and general traffic offences have all contributed to the figure, as well as rising fine costs.
In the six year period, the number of licensed drivers rose by almost half a million, from 3.6 million to 4.03 million. Despite the increase in road users, last year’s road toll was the state’s lowest since World War II, with 445 deaths.
Roads Minister Eric Roozendaal credited the tough law enforcement as the reason for the low road toll, saying the number “shows our strategies are working.”
NRMA Motoring & Services President Alan Evans disagreed, saying that the low road toll was thanks to “better drivers, better cars and better roads.”
Are the heavy penalties saving lives? Are the figures a reflection of our driving ability? Or are motorists just being bullied?
The point of speed cameras is that IF YOU DON’T SPEED YOU WON’T BE FINED – how much simpler do they have to make it people? I have been driving for over 25 years and still have all my points. On my driving record is a speeding fine for 1986. I drive a fair bit, so if I can do it, so can you – stop whinging when you get fined, stick to the speed limit and you won’t be fined! It’s not rocket science!
Speed limits should be based on the 85th percentile speed, as advocated by the National Motorists Association Australia. Using nominal limits frustrates motorists, with inevitable consequences.
If the issue was NOT about revinue raising, then every school zone would have clear variable speed signs. Such signs are still “in trial mode” all these years later. With all the visual clutter/ visual pollution that the RTA allows on roadways it’s easy to find onesself in a school zone without knowing it. And what if my watch is wrong. What if I don’t have kids and am unaware of the school holiday dates. Not good enough. It should be about stopping accidents and injury…….. not raising money and keeping up appearences. (by the way , I’ve been driving 30 years and I’ve got all my points too. I also regularly attend motor vehicle accidents in my employment. The myopic speed and fines approach is just too convenient)
Unfortunately this government (Carr/ Iemma) is a one trick pony when it comes to road safety. Quite simply, their strategy is to identify any particular type of driving behaviour that MIGHT have a causal relationship to road trauma and introduce a monetary and points penalty. If a penaly already exists then they simply increase it – again and again.
The old chestnut trotted out time after time to defend the strategy on the monetary side – “Don’t speed and you won’t be fined” – just doesn’t stand up to any impartial analysis. Taken to it’s logical conclusion they are asking the NSW public to swallow the notion that James Packer (we all know of him, don’t we? Well known and VERY wealthy Eastern Suburbs resident) is somehow motivated to restrain himself from putting his foot down in his Aston Martin, Porsche etc. for fear of a FINE!! A monetary penalty!! I am sure the threat of incurring a “heavy” fine has him quaking in his boots!! NOT! I just don’t buy it, and anyone who does is either unbelievably naive, incredibly gullible or hasn’t really taken the time to think it through.
My personal experience is that I have been fined (although I have all my points at present) and the actual monetary penalty, and the ongoing “fear” of incurring another such penalty, has virtually zero impact on my driving behaviour. The reality is that I am relatively fortunate and earn a good income. If fined I will bitch about it to my friends, wait for a couple of reminder notices, write the cheque and be done with it. Real impact is zero – it won’t mean that I can’t pay the electricity bill or that I won’t be able to go out to a restaurant for dinner.
The sad thing here is that the same can’t be said of others I know at my place of work who are less well placed than I am from a monetary perspective. I know of a part-time working mum trying to get back on her feet after a separation who has been fined for the same offence that I have been – same so-called “danger to the public etc. etc.” – and the need to pay the fine has meant that she has gone without basics for a number of weeks – she really was punished by the monetary fine in a most prejudicial way compared to me – or James Packer, should he be fined for the same offence.
And let us not forget the fact that these policies have been put in place and justified by a LABOR government. I am sure readers are familiar with who I am talking about – they are the people who have as a fundamental tenet of their party platform the premise that they will look after the interests of the little people, the battlers, the workers, those less able to have their interests represented and considered by those in power. And in return for support from these people to get elected they introduce and enforce one of the most incredibly aggressive, discriminatory, regressive taxes ever invented. And “spin” it to the public as a “safety initiative”. As I said, I don’t buy it.
As for the points component of the penalty system, this government, who would have you believe that it has a “strong stance” on general law and order issues of a criminal nature (such as assault, rape, murder, break and enter etc.), has created the situation where the points penalty for certain offences can now be NINE times what they were when they first came to power. NINE TIMES!!! What they HAVEN’T done is increase the penalties for the previously mentioned criminal offences by anything like that. Another example of “spin” to the public, wrapped up as a safety initiative. And, when you take the time to subject the situation to an impartial, dispassionate analysis, the strategy is found wanting.
What really rubs salt into the wound is that there is no sign of initiative, foresight or vision for the future – it just looks like more of the same. The reality is that there are numerous strategies that could be implemented to address the issue of road trauma, but there seems to be little move to introduce them because, one has to assume, they might actually cost money and could be electorally unpopular.
The most logical strategy is to introduce a system that creates a reasonable probability that the holder of a license can actually drive – because the present system doesn’t!!
My mother was born in 1930, got her license in 1948 and is required to be re-tested in 2015! What a joke! The road and regulatory environment is constantly evolving and there needs to be a system that ensures that possession of a license is a reasonable indicator that the holder has adequate vision, knowledge of the current rules and the requisite motor skills to competently navigate their way around:
1) Vision. The current test is inadequate, conducted in a stationery, standing position, under flourescent light, reading stationery letters, usually reflected in a high-mounted mirror. Hardly a realistic representation of the on-road environment. No tests should be conducted by the RTA. All tests should be conducted by duly authorised optometrists, who would issue a certificate to be presented to the RTA (paper or on-line in the same way as a green slip is managed) attesting that the applicant has passed the “driver sight test”, which would check for night blindness, depth perception, capacity to see in low light / high glare situations, the ability to perceive relative motion etc. A side benefit would be the improvement in the general optical health of the population as regular checking would pick up developing issues earlier, allowing a wider range of treatment options and maintaining higher standards of vision in the general community. BUT!!! To implement this policy would be viewed by the present government as a COST, not an INVESTMENT, and as a consequence probably wouldn’t make it out of the party room before it was euthanased.
2) Knowledge of the current road rules. Quite simply, the rules have changed just a bit between 1948 and now, let alone 2015 when my mother is scheduled to come up for her next test! The reality is that most drivers are fundamentally ignorant of the majority of the detail of the rules as they are today. If you don’t believe me go to the RTA web site, revise the rules on roundabouts and then go to the nearest roundabout!! It’s more like Rafferty’s rules than road rules. The requirement to demonstrate an effective working knowledge of the current road rules should be mandatory every time a license in renewed. The expense wouldn’t be huge, but no doubt such a policy would join it’s “vision” counterpart, dead on the party room floor, a victim of the emotion of COST against the vision of INVESTMENT.
3) Motor skills. The simple requirement to demonstrate that you can drive to the standard of the current driving test each time your license is renewed. (Note I said CURRENT driving test – we would hate to raise the bar in that area for fear the word “advanced” might creep in and normal, sane, rational people might start getting grandiose ideas of their abilities – that would be a disaster!! Of course, one has to suspect that the “anti advanced driving advocates” might have second thoughts about loading their family into a plane piloted by someone who had been trained to such a rudimentary level, but that is a debate for another day).
It is abundantly clear that many drivers lack the most basic skills relating to judging the size of their vehicle and its positioning on the road, the fundamentals of merging, of lane discipline etc. (As another aside, while many of these poor skills and practices regularly result in infringements of the road rules, such infringements are significantly under-represented in the Infringement Notice statistics. The agreed arrangement seems to be “do whatever the hell you like – just don’t speed – or hit anyone – and you won’t be booked”).
There would no doubt be an expense and an inconvenience to people renewing their licenses to implement this strategy, so one would have to expect that it will go the way of the previous two suggestions, but the opportunities and consequential benefits are there for the taking.
Oh, that we should be blessed with politicians and leaders endowed with a modicum of foresight, vision and courage……..!!!!!!!
There are, of course, other strategies that could be adopted by utilising the licensing system to provide an incentive to make a contribution in others areas that would have a net beneficial effect. In reality it could be possible to quickly and easily (relatively) create a NEGATIVE road toll by leveraging the licensing system. Unfortunately people would no doubt continue to die on our roads (as another aside, are the statistics cleansed of suicides? You hear of gassings, hangings, overdoses, jumps, walking in front of trains, etc. Seems funny that you don’t hear of vehicular suicide), but by providing incentives through the licensing system for people to modify their behaviour the overall death rate in the community could be reduced by an amount greater than the road toll.
The opportunities here relate to our absolutely appalling community participation rate as it relates to activities such as blood donation, organ donation and first aid training. Motor vehicle trauma has a direct relationship to all of these areas and the concept of leveraging the license system to improve the participation rates is not exactly rocket science. There are numerous options for operating such a scheme, including the provision of tax incentives, license extensions or straight financial incentives. An unrestricted NSW license is now $45 for one year, $106 for three years and $142 for five years.
The simple example would be to raise the five year price to $1000 and offer a $300 discount for each of evidence of one blood donation per year during the term of the previous license (with an exemption for those unable to donate due to medical or religious beliefs), evidence of registration as an organ donor (with provision for exemption if required) and evidence of holding a current first aid certificate (no exemption offered). Total cost of license – $100.
As the population ages we are seeing a significant increase in the need for blood and organ donations and the opportunity is there to save far more lives than the road toll tragically takes from us – if only we have the courage, vision and foresight to recognise the opportunity, grab it and run with it.
It is easy to criticise the status quo and those responsible for creating and maintaining it. It is far harder to propose alternative concepts to those that you are criticising.
I have levelled criticism in the above passage, but I have taken the time and effort to propose alternative concepts that offer the opportunity to enact meaningful change in an area that is of significant importance to all in our community.
I can only hope that someone, somewhere, in a position to enact meaningful change, is listening, or is at least of like mind.
I believe the heavy penalties are saving lives. I know of many drivers who take great care to comply with speed limits to avoid the penalties both dollar wise and loss of points. Without stiff fines for speeding I don’t doubt for a minute that more drivers would be inclined to ignore speed limits thereby increasing the risk of serious accidents. With the increased speeds of course comes the increased risk of fatal injuries.
Anyone that thinks speed doesn’t cause accidents is kidding themself. Maybe not by itself but it certainly is a major contributing factor.
Things are fine when you are hurtling along at 150kph, until a kangaroo hops out onto the road 5o metres ahead. At 150 you are either going to hit it or like a lot of inexperienced drivers do, roll your car when you swerve to miss it. At 100kph you can brake in a straight line slowing the car enough to do minimal damage or none at all with the roo having time to clear the roadway.
When the offenders are allowed to get off with very light penalties from the judges, and also if you are well known sports person the offence is pardoned by a judge, ie; where a Panthers footy player was let off by a Penrith judge, this man did not have a licence, and was caught driving with out a licence, the judge let him off with out a conviction or fine, I would like to know how judges can do this? how about the insurance? etc; laws are only ment for some not for the lawbreakers, as the judges let them off…
I believe they are just raising revenue recently my wife was booked for stopping in a bus zone to drop my daughter off at school along with 37 other drivers the police car was parked across the road and the officer was just noting done the rego numbers and posted out the fines later the fine was $220
My brother inlaw was caught by a speed camera doing 10 kph over the speed limit the fine was $79 which offence was more dangerous the speeding was but iy only attracts a small fine.
you are an idiot, the bus zone outside the school was much more
dangerous than the speeding.
Speed in the wrong places can cause accidents but so does lack of attention but try traveling to Canberra from Wollongong most of the traffic is bunched up doing 115 which is the main cause of multiple rear end crashes. There will always be accidents as long as people drive. I am amazed there are so few considering the stupid things some drivers do. Politicians like to be seen to be doing something and speed cameras are cheaper than highway patrols. If they really wand to stop drivers speeding increase registration or sales tax on cars with engines over 1500cc. That will never happen because too many will be put out of work.
Have you noticed how big the car parks at the clubs are – the customers don’t just go there to gamble. Can you imagine NSW government instructing police to check everyone as they drive out.
Speeding is a control issue. If people have no self control then the government has to step in to control them for the public’s safety.
But, what are we doing to promote the learning of healthy self control? Speed and red light cameras can be successfully obeyed by those with enough basic awareness and self respect, but many, probably most peole will not be so conscientious about their speed when they think their is no one checking. In fact by imposing only external controls we implicitly teach drivers that they are not required to have self control.
So, education would ideally require learners to build and demonstrate self control. They will only value self control if they understood how they will benefit. A big stick approach has no value in a society that seeks to have all people equally educated and informed so that they can make healthy choices.
Those who refuse education can be refused the privilege of driving. Lets sort out the sheep from the goats at the licencing stage.
I do above average driving time on the Pacific Hwy in Nth NSW. Yes Speed is factor in crashes, yes speed cameras work in their immediate vicinty then everyone accelates back to their original speeds? Road conditions are ,well I’m amazed more aren’t hurt, the Pacific Highway is just a death trap for the unwary. But one thing constantly amazes me is the in attention drivers give the road, you see people arguing, picking their nose etc some are just in lala land (ask any truckie on this route) Everyone keeps blaming everything else but keep omitting Driver education. Why cant we have a compulsary course and then say graded levels. To become a motorcyclist, they need to do specialised driving course and then they can do advanced defensive driving levels, you become so much more aware of what is happening around you. Aggression on the roads is rising, lack of courtesy to straight out rudeness, all needless. If you want to lower speeding, leave the Hwy patrols out there on the roads. Driver education is the big one, the EU drive considerably faster than we do on the open roads, they are also educated drivers and have less deaths per population they we do, their roads and assoc. conditions are a factor but at least they all move out of the fast lane after overtaking.
Fines don’t work. My son owes nearly $ 4000 in fines for various driving offences. he still drives the same way. He has lost it one five occassions. As he is paying the fines off at $50 per week, he doesn’t care.
Rather than blame solely just the driver, let’s look at the poor infrastructure due to poor forward planning. How often have we seen a road built, only to suffer two years later when they decide it needs widening.
Also, let’s train our young drivers to drive, not just to pass the exam.
On a properly built road, a properly trained driver, speed is no longer a factor. Having driven in Germany, on the autobahns, i can speak from first hand experience. There the drivers overtake & get back over, leaving the overtaking lane for those drivers that want to do 250kmh.
Alright, Personally, as a recent Green to Black licenced driver, I copped alot of the flack as a P-Plater through my time, I was on my P’s when all the new laws and all that business came out.. I have to say, yes I speed on occasion, as do alot of other drivers out there.. (Honestly I see more ‘full licence’ drivers doing stupid things than P-Platers; I guess people think as soon as they are on a ‘full licence’ their driving skills boost majorly…)
The thing that controlled me the most, was the risk of losing my vehicle to either the police or a telegraph pole, and losing friends in the mean time.. The fines and points were lower on the “scare” scale..
But I don’t think heavy fines, increased points, and all that stuff would be as effective of reducing the road toll as DRIVER EDUCATION..
Ok, I know I’m not the greatest driver in the world, or may not have as much “experience” as someone with 25years behind them.. But I know that, if I were to do an advanced driving course, in alot of different situations I know I could prevail over someone with 25-30 years of “experience”..
What do you refer to as the better kind of “experience” though? Driving at a normal pace amongst cars for 30 years? Or being able to avoid hazards, knowing the limits of your vehicle and being able to control it in different situations?
I think a mandatory driving course or something for new drivers would be the best way to go at reducing road tolls and stuff.. Leave the fines as are, because I know that works to scare people.. But more ‘advanced’ driving experience at the Licencing stage would do a great deal (Instead of the stupid amount of 120 hours!!)
I agree that we need something to deter drivers from driving too fast in certain areas. Sometimes the road is not suitable for excessive speeds or a unforeseen curve ahead.
The amount of money the NSW government collects from around schools should be put back into those schools. If a school area is pulling in large amounts of money, obvioulsy drivers are speeding in those areas. Police should be there in those areas to deter them more.
Don’t just say – it’s OK cause there is a camera there to deter. The Government don’t want the police there as an extra deterent becasue they are pulling in the dollars. When will the Pollies get off their butts and protect the children??
An area pulling in money from RTA cameras should have bollards and traffic signals there to allow the kids to cross safely.
Too much money is already given to private schools who have a third of the states schoolkids but, get two thirds of the state’s education funds.
The teachers federation has been trying to publicly advertise this and get people to lobby their local ministers about this for years.
Again the pollies making sure their kids get the best education and funding for it.
Wake up people, speeding is a problem but , in areas known for cameras and good revenue is comming from them, police should be there as well to deter drivers from speeding , not just the government pulling in the dollars and allocating it back to private schools where the pollies kids go.
here’s proof
http://www.nswtf.org.au/media/latest_2008/20080212_review.html
THEY ARE NOT SPEED CAMERAS JUST CASH CAMERAS
Whilst the reduction in deaths on our roads is both pleasing and necessary I think the actual traffic infringement process is over used and in many cases not capturing the motorists who cause the problems. At a recent discussion between friends we noted that many had swapped infringements to a family member or friend who had a clean record. The is because the camera approach does not identify the actual driver and leaves the system open to systematic abuse. Noote this is not just the average Australian driver, but as certain high profile cases have identified is a practise undertaken by many even in the judiciary!
I had my license cancelled because I could not identify a driver even though the offence happened whilst I was under hospital treatment. When I finally received the fine, no-one could identify who the driver was, although some volunteered to reeive it and take the points. It was a large number of points as it occured during a double demerit period. I however felt I could not sign an Affidavit stating someone was driving when I could not be sure of this. I could show it wasn’t me, but this isn’t good enough under the legislation.
There is no doubt that the fines issuing process has grown dramatically with the impoition of camera detected offences and it would seem that there is a fault in this process that the government does not wish to address, or cannot address, without the loss of significant revenue streams.
The next time you get pulled over by one of our state’s finest for driving your vehicle, albeit with the greatest of care and attention but none-the-less over our ridiculously over-policed and archaic speed limits, just ask yourself while your waiting to receive your “infringement notice” for a couple of hundred bucks, wouldn’t it be great if the next time your house got burgled and all your prize posessions stolen by some drug addicted loser, that… maybe, just maybe, our police force and politicians would give a damn? Would that be too much to ask or are the motorists of NSW the only criminals worth persuing?
And BTW – A message to Graham about his comments above. Please let everyone else know how it is possible to brake from 100kph and avoid a hitting an object 50 meters in front you without swerving! Pyshics would suggest that this is impossible, however if you know how to do this, please share as this knowledge would undoubtly save many lives.
Speed Cameras are a revenue raising cash cow !
More police cars on the road would have more of an impact as they can patrol through the suburbs, catching thieves, vandals, hooligans and yes the person speeding that normally would have slowed down for the fixed roadside speed camera. Roadside speed cameras only catch out the unwary local or the out-of-area passer by !!
Even the most diligent driver eg: Kathy (above) can get distracted for enough time to slip over the threshold & get booked – a moments lack of concentration, a push of the radio or CD control, a child in the back screaming or crying, a passenger asking your opinion on a current news item etc etc etc. Combine that with too many signs on the roadside, a late night or a hard day at the office or on the tools, and it will happen. Don’t preach to us that we shouldn’t speed, or whinge when we get caught – a good percentage of us don’t mean it !! Driver education is probably the biggest cause of accidents, however without police on the roads this cannot be addressed. It is easier for the RTA/DOT etc to spread propaganda on speeding and setup (mostly hidden) speed cameras.
Oh and for the record, I have been driving for 25+ years and had not been booked for speeding for the at least the last 15+ years, until about 4 months ago. Without going into all the nitty gritty, I don’t believe my speeding fine was justified due to road conditions, circumstances etc.
Also like what Chris Eddy has said regarding driving courses for drivers. I have completed many driving courses as well as engaging in more than one form of motorsport over the last 15 years. My 18 year old son is locked in to do his defensive driving course very soon – a must for all new and many existing drivers. There are plenty of accident drivers waiting to happen out there……..
Interesting article from the UK only 15% of accidents in UK caused by speed? read on
Failure to pay attention main road crash cause
Rebecca Smithers, consumer affairs correspondent The Guardian, Friday September 29 2006
This article appeared in the Guardian on Friday September 29 2006 on p6 of the National news section. It was last updated at 12:43 on September 29 2006.
Drivers’ failure to pay attention, rather than speed, is now the main cause of road accidents, according to government figures published yesterday.
Motoring groups campaigning against speed cameras urged the government to shift the emphasis of safety campaigns from speed to drivers’ concentration and avoidance of distractions such as phones, music and satellite navigation systems.
For the first time the accident statistics include contributory factors, and failure to look properly was the one most frequently reported, in 32% of cases last year, the Department for Transport (DfT) reported.
Overall, deaths and injuries on Britain’s roads continued to fall, with 3,201 people killed on the roads last year – 1% down on 2004. The number of people seriously injured fell 7% to 28,954. Total casualties – deaths, serious and slight injuries – were down 3% to 271,017. There was also a significant reduction in the casualty rate for children, with 141 killed on the roads in 2005 – 25 fewer than in the previous year.
The DfT figures are based on accidents at which a police officer attended – estimated to be 80% of the total last year.
Exceeding the speed limit or going too fast for the conditions was said to be a contributory factor in 15% of all accidents and 26% of fatal accidents. Eight times more male than female drivers or riders involved in accidents were said to be speeding. Exceeding the speed limit was the sole factor in 5% of all accidents and 12% of fatal accidents last year.
The RAC Foundation expressed concern that, despite last year’s small decrease, the fall in road deaths had “plateaued out” over the past few years. Edmund King, executive director of the foundation, said: “For a number of years we have been arguing that we need to know more about the causes of crashes so that they can be addressed.
“Cars have become ‘second homes’ for drivers, kitted out with the latest mod cons which also present considerable distractions. These figures suggest that all drivers need to concentrate more on the road ahead rather than on their phones, passengers, music, food, drinks, navigation systems, or countryside clutter of signs. We need to get drivers to take more responsibility for their actions.”
Kevin Clinton, head of road safety at the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents, said: “This report shows that we have to re-emphasise the need to continue with the overall campaign against speed. It is not just about cameras – we have to continue with engineering measures, traffic calming, advertising and speed awareness courses. Manufacturers need to do more to make it easier for drivers to see what speed their vehicle is doing.”
Some statisticians point out that the DfT figures are based on police reports, not those from hospitals, so could underestimate the casualty rate.
Shadow transport secretary Chris Grayling said: “The government should start taking proper action to deal with the problem, and stop sheltering behind statistics about which there are very real concerns.”
Education is a key factor – Learn time management!!
Also, I believe teh next round of anti-speeding ads should focus on the theme “It’s a LIMIT not the compulsory speed” Teach our drivers it’s OK to do 100 in the LEFT LANE on a freeway.
Why not use the ‘Power to Weight’ ratio licence restrictions for cars like they do for bikes? Too much power in basic sedans for inexperienced (and some older) drivers who don’t know how to handle it – especially in an emergency.
As for fines, rich people or louts that organise to pay $4000 off in $50 bits (See Brian’s the story above) don’t care. Try more of the vehicle confiscation idea.
12 SPEEDING points in 2 years – Loose your car
30k over any limit – Loose your car
Driving without a licence – Loose your car
Over point 1.0 breath test – Loose your car
You could make the confiscation for a 3 or 6 month period – second offence – squash it or auction with money to the hospital system.
I know it is very easy to drift over the limit on a good road so I have cruise control to help me. I even use it around town so I can concentrate on what is going on around me and not get caught up in the rush.
As for those judges and celebrities that get off because they volunteer to do community work – one rule for all. (Side note on th ejudge that gave a dead womans name as driving his car – no memory lapse alowed in his position SACKHIM and take his car – even if it is registered in his wife’s name!!!)
Perhaps anyone that has not had a speeding ticket does not have the confidence to drive their car competently and should have their licence withdrawn immediately…….and not reinstated until they pass an exhaustive defensive driving course?
If you haven’t completed a defensive driving course (at the mimiumum) you should not have an opinion.
Poulation density will cause congestion on the raods – this will automatically reduce the road toll so the stats are not very real.
Speed cameras on the major freeways etc. do not detect P platers exceeding their limit but belo 110neither do they detect heavy vehicles exceeding 100 but less than 110.
Who is most at risk of speeding? P platers we are told. What vehicle would be the most dangerous when speeding? Do I need to say.
People are going to continue dying on our roads when we have a an organisation such as the RTA promoting a drive to a rule book mentality. I personally believe the RTA is an accomplice to mass manslaughter.
People are not taught anything about car dynamics, handling or what will happen when it goes pearshaped. Hey, they are not even taught to put on the brakes after an accident!
We should be promoting proactive driving NOT reactive driving!
Stop wasting our taxpayers money and build better roads and while we are at it stop dropping to the lowest common denominator (in other words lets raise the average driving standard) and make it compulsory for everyone to do a car control / advanced driving course. Next we need a highway / freeway standard. Why not? We have standards for everything else! Min 100kmh – max 130 kmh for drivers with more than (say) 10 years experience.
Introduce log books for all drivers so that you have to get a stamp at service stations (ok, so this is not a perfect solution) and those not clocking up a required number of kilometres a year – they get retested. The points are changed to also reflect this – people who drive 50,000 km a year get more points – people who drive 1000km a year get less! Why? I know people who have a “gold” license and NEVER drive – no exposure to the road means they will never loose any points!
Stop parents from training their youngsters for driving – unless they pass a more advanced driving test. Why? I see many people who are obviously themselves not a good driver and then they teach their kids – what? How to be a bad driver!
Speed limits to be enforced within say 10%, many many road incidents occur due to slower drivers. It is not unusual on the mid north caost to see people on a highway that is 100kmh doing 60 or 70 and in one extreme 40kmh! If these people cannot or will not stop being a mobile traffic jam they must be removed from our raods or forced to pullover at points to allow traffic to move on (this normally never occurs).
School zones – are purely a revenue earning exercise as most schools do not offload onto main roads. If they do – it should be changed not the raod. A highway must not have a school zone on it as highways should be treated as a national resource – see standards above!
Overtaking, I see a lot of near disasters occuring due to people overtaking and not gaining significant speed differential – in other words they go past at no more than 100kmh which is absolutely crazy! The law should allow for a (say) 25% increase in allowable speed for overtaking. Less time on the other side of the road means safer! (Then again if we had dual carriage roads it would not be necessary!) – I could go on (and on)
I live in regional NSW and I offer a different viewpoint, simply based on geography. Interestingly, I have the Pacific Highway almost at my front door and I can see no evidence that heavy fines are a deterent to speeding. We have upward of 250 b-double heavy vehicles on most nights travel past and almost all of them exceed our 50 k.p.h. speed limit. This happens nearly every night and police do not monitor the speed limit in our area. We have been told by the RTA that it would be too dangerous to place a pedestrian crossing across the highway, albeit in a 50 k.p.h. urban zone, and it doesn’t take Einstein to work out why it would be dangerous. Imagining a pedestrian being hit by a heavy vehicle travelling at 80 to 100 k.p.h is terrifying. I have to agree with the notion that our ‘p-platers’ are definitely not competent drivers. Multiple choice answers for the test to gain a learners permit and no limit to the number of times one can take the test ??- the RTA have to be joking! What do they honestly expect the outcome to be? At best, it could only validate that a “p-plater’ can operate the machinations of a motor vehicle sufficiently to gain driving experience but certainly not that they are able to drive a vehicle COMPETENTLY. That requires experience driving on all sorts of roads in all sorts of conditions. Perhaps the RTA could advise our new drivers that their license means that are able to use the controls on a vehicle sufficiently to gain further experience in order to become competent. One can only hope!!
no heavey fines and especially double demerit points do not save lives as the statistic’s prove that only 9% of road fatalities are speed related!
what saves lives is defencive driver training as has been such a huge success in NSW with the compulsory pre licence motorcycle rider training.
E.G 1989 203 deaths 1994 24 deaths.
rider training was introduced in 1990.
Sadly we are all paying to many fines however my only fine in 20 years was because I drove to slowly through as traffic light there it stands to reason, drive at a safe speed, drive fairly, obey the laws and guess what, you won’t get fined so stop whinging you mob and drive within the rules and guess what, hmmmm, no more traffic fines..THINK ABOUT IT
Some people’s logic here is way off but that’s another matter.
Great idea Dan. If an area is particularly problematic, why isn’t police presence increased? If the powers that be were serious about saving lives then this is exactly what they would do – put police where there is a serious problem and fix it.
Obviously they aren’t serious about saving lives – parking fines are the perfect example.
Having driven on NSW roads for more than forty years I belive I am qualified to make a statement (speeding is the only offence I have ever been fined for).
I believe that better roads and more importantly better cars are responsible for the reduced road toll.
The method used to change driver’s attitude to driving under the influence of alcohol was a special case of a draconian way but it also worked and would have helped reduced the toll.
I doubt that the government could do the same with exceeding our ridiculous speed limits. Why have cars on the road which can readily exceed 200kph when the maximum is 110kph. More importantly, why allow young drivers to own or drive them.
There has been a tendency for the media and others to denegrate the authorities for penaties imposed for traffic offences. This is deplorable. I would suggest that current penalties be increased 10 fold to well over $2,000 for the most minor offence and driving licenses cancelled as well for many years, not a few months. What is the alternative to these reckless person’s behaviour, who are out to flout the law – which they consider to be an ‘ass’. Would these intelligent critics consider minor offenders spending a many months behind bars for these offences? Australian, generally do not consider that the law in any respect is to be followed, but to be flouted irrespective of whether such actions will murder a fellow human being in their path.
“P” PLATES, SIGN OF AN INEXPERIENCED DRIVER OR A TARGET FOR THE REVENUE RAISER. Too many “P” Plate Drivers lose their Licences for not displaying a “P” Plate. This apparently is a major offence. P’s could be displayed inside the vehicle, but that meant they were safe from falling off or being removed by other drivers. At 1 point and $179 per plate, a lot of revenue was lost by dispaying plates in in this manner. Make it mandatory to display “P” plates on the outside,that will raise a lot more money.
Most roads in NSW are governed by 80kph speed limits or less and every driver, regardless of their Licence classification, must obey these speed limits. If a driver does not exceed these limits but is unfortunate enough to lose a “P” plate, surely a warning is sufficient. The “P” system was introduced to enable drivers gain experience, instead it is used to raise revenue.
It doesn’t matter if plates are stolen from your car or if the road conditions or bad weather cause them to fall off. No excuse is tolerated. Lose your Licence for 3 to 6 months, what driving experience do you gain? Nothing, you go back on the Road worse off, because you couldn’t keep “P” plates on your car.
Do something positive for road safety, change this stupid regulation. Allow plates to be placed inside the vehicle where they can’t be tampered with. To gain experience, drivers have to be able to drive.
If “P” Drivers do Lose their Licence through stupidity, don’t take them off the road, do something sensible, put them back on “L” Plates. They can then learn the error of their ways, and still gain experience to make them better more responsible drivers.
Hefty fines will not save lives!
A better deterrent for speeding motorists would be loss of license and use of motor vehicle.
From the years that I have been involved with safety in industry, I have all ways noted the lack of training for the drivers of vehicles. For apprentices their training commences on the least expensive machines and, are taught how to be safe with the machine during operation. This must apply to the road machine operators (vehicles). Learning some basic knowledge on traction, center of gravity and towing trailers. Their has to be a type of institute for the learning in road vehicle operations. This not to prevent people in obtaining a license but, to obtain a safer manner for individuals who either driver in the cities or out on the country roads. Forcing people to pay fines does not improve knowledge, it only improves the revenue for the Government.
Awareness of ones surroundings (defensive driving) is one of the keys to safe driving. Constant attention to monitoring and maintaining a precise speed diverts precious and necessary attention (as do mobile phones) from the difficult and more important task of monitoring and adapting to the external conditions.
Research repeatedly shows that far superior safety outcomes are achieved in circumstances of uniform relative speed, over enforcement of a precise absolute speed.
I frequently see drivers desperately standing on their brakes to slow from 70km/h to 40km/h on major arterial roads, frequently nearly causing numerous collisions, as they enter a school zone, with not a child in sight! It’s nonsense!
Having been fined twice within days for travelling at 62 k/h on Cleveland Street near Anzac Pde at 11pm, I’d love some feedback or advice from members about how to respond (in court) to what is obviously a ‘trap’ – a 50k/hr section on a main arterial road when all roads nearby (including tiny local streets) have 60 or above! Do I have any chance of beating this in court? There’s nothing dangerous about this speed at this time of day/night (and in truth, in daylight it’s impossible to go that fast as the street is a parking lot!)
The fine is tiny ($79) in each case but I can’t afford 2 x 3 points!
Does NRMA have a legal advice dept still? I can’t get through by phone and the website is a maze
Hi Geoff,
I found this (http://trafficlaw.com.au/speeding.fines.html) which might be useful:
Q. I just received 7 speed camera fines in the mail, including 4 on a single day, with a total of 13 demerit points. What can I do?
There are several options. You can write to the Traffic Camera Office and ask for all but one fine to be withdrawn on the basis that if you had received the first fine promptly and before the others, you would not have reoffended. This might be the case if the offences were committed on the same day or over a period of a week or two. The PRB (Penalty Review Board) has guidelines for this and they are able to make you pay the most serious fine and withdraw the others. Writing to the PRB also has its downside if you later decide to take your case to court, so you may want to get legal assistance and advice if you want to protect all your rights. Another option is to lodge an objection to each of the fines and use various strategies to get rid of them, or win them, via the court system.
RE: Geoff Sirmai Says: May 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Geoff, I also have been caught out at the same spot on Cleveland Street near Anzac Pde at 60kl, I was not aware this was a 50klm zone, does anyone know how I can find out when this speed limit zone changed? Any advice on how best I could fight this would be great, I thought the speed limit was 60klm other than school times. I have elected to go to court. What is also amusing is not more than 100m up the rd on Anzac pde the speed limit changes 4 times in the space of less than 500m.
Having been fined twice within days for travelling at 62 k/h on Cleveland Street near Anzac Pde at 11pm, I’d love some feedback or advice from members about how to respond (in court) to what is obviously a ‘trap’ – a 50k/hr section on a main arterial road when all roads nearby (including tiny local streets) have 60 or above! Do I have any chance of beating this in court? There’s nothing dangerous about this speed at this time of day/night (and in truth, in daylight it’s impossible to go that fast as the street is a parking lot!)
The fine is tiny ($79) in each case but I can’t afford 2 x 3 points!
Does NRMA have a legal advice dept still?
The public must have the right to know at what speed the camera is triggering, and only an institution like the NRMA can take the RTA to a Court of Law to force the publication of the figure.
People being fined for 3 K/h over the limit is unethical. It must be considered:
1.- The error in the measuring devices (both the camera and the car) ,and
2.- the difficulties in controlling the speed, unless the vehicle is driven (say) 10 km under the speed limit.
Studies in the USA shows that raising the speed limit (that some states actually have done) has, in fact, lowered the rate of fatalities.
The reader may refer to the website:
http://www.roadsense.com.au/latest.html
To make my position clear for sake of contributing, in goof faith, the law should be as hard as possible with drivers breaching the limit for more that 30 km/h, but no points, or just one point should be deducted for driving up to 14 km/h over the limit.
When people that have been driving for many years (sometimes over 30) has lost half their license to just two fines for exceeding the limit for three Km/h on dubiously marked 50 Km/h zones, we have a clear indication that the system is unfair.
RE: Geoff Sirmai Says: May 9th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
Would you mind letting us know how you went?
I have been caught at the same spot doing 63km. Who would have thought that that strip of Cleveland Street is 50Km/h.
Anzac Pde joined to that part of Cleveland Street is 70km/h and further that part of the street is not even residential. Why is it 50km and where are the signs?
Any ideas?
I’ve been photographed twice in the same day at the Cleveland St, Moore Park ‘trap’.
Try as I have, I couldn’t find any other 40/50 zones (school times / off times) on a main arterial road like Cleveland St.
Even in heavily built-up areas (with parking & high pedestrian crossing) like Ashfields Liverpool St, it’s a 60 zone out of school hours.
After 20 years without an infringement I just got a $324 fine in the mail for apparently doing 60km/hr in a 40km/hr school zone. It was a few minutes before 4pm. There was not a kid (they all went home almost an hour ago) or any other pedestrian in sight. I was on a dead straight 3 lane main road. The “school zone” sign is easy to miss in the cluttered roadside at this location. There was no “speed camera operating” sign anywhere. I think it was a permanent camera but they didn’t fill me in on this detail.
What an absolute joke. I talked to a friend who lives in the area “oh that camera got me too”. Apparently I cannot even ask for leniency because it was in a school zone. Revenue raising at its grubbiest.
To those that were caught on Cleveland st, were you travelling to Anzac Parade or from Anzac parade?
I have seen a lot of the school and variable speed camera signs partially obscured by tree branches and this is an unfair trap for the person who is new to this street or area. I honestly believe that there should be flashing lights like those used previously for railway intersections and better still with alarm bells from 8-9:30 am and from 2:30-4pm in school zones with at least warning signs about cameras and school zones every 100metres for 500metres in each street that leads to the area and/or camera.
Better still is to have pedesterian bridges in each school zone and prevent crossing the streets by physical barrier, and also have drive ways within schools for drop off and pick-up on a side street where the 30km/hour should be forced in the above mentioned times and leave the speed on main roads at 60km/hour.
Children are very precious but the traffic flow during peak hours specially in the morning should not be further congested by forcing drivers to slow down every 2 km or so down to 40km or less.
Another solution is to create a goverment transport authority to pick up children and drop them off at school to reduce the number of cars on the roads and relieve the traffic congestion.
Its a rort! Though not all the time. it’s easy to justify a speeding fine and few people will argue with it. i recieved one doing 50 in a 60 zone during school hours. not being a native to australia i had no idea wether it was or was not a holiday (not much of an excuse). however, it was at 1530 in the day and the school had finished at lunch time as it was a friday and they were on holidays from the monday. as a result the variable speed sign was switched off but the camera apparently wasn’t. it was a clear road, i was in no hurry and school had finished, but that’s not good enough, school zone on a school day. letter of the law. money money money.
my partner at 8 months pregnant agreed with a shop asistant that she would pull up outside the shop and he would carry her (large) purchase to the car. she pulled up but had two wheels over a disabled parking zone. she got out, went to the shop a few meters away, met with the assistant who carried her package outside. hey presto, parking attendant handing out fine; listened to the story, she’d been gone 5-8minutes at the very most. no deal, parking illegally pregnancy no excuse, carry the package the next time. letter of the law, money money money.
sometimes it would be nice to have a human being to talk to instead of a money munching machine disguised in a rangers uniform.
Do rangers get commision or some other reward for collecting a fine?
Trevor
I am 62 years of age and have been driving since I was 16. In the last three months, I have received three speeding fines in Cleveland Street, doing 52k in a 40k zone. I have never had a speeding fine in my entire driving life. For a middle aged person in business who is driving every day this is most upsetting as I am close to losing my license. Why arent the police catching the hoons that drive over 100 k’s along General Holmes Drive at Kyeemah once they are out of the the speed camera section, usually blasing their horns at me as I am a slow driver. Does the NRMA have any legal department that can advice on this, there must be tens of thousands of careful drivers who have had this experience.
Maureen, I understand your case in terms of the hoons doing well beyond 100km/h on major roads, unfortunately without more police there’s only so much we can do – I hate that.
Though I have to say that I fully support strict monitoring and enforcement of 40km/h zones (in hindsight maybe not when driving through them), in most cases these are in areas that are looking at the pedestrians safety and as a common and true awareness sign puts it:
“Slow down, Kids don’t bounce”.
i think that people who whinge about speeding fines are ridiculous, why should cameras be marked, on the contrary i think they should be hidden.
but P platers are so eager to speed because they have had to drive under constant parental nagging for 120 hours, its no wonder they drive like hoons when they finally get the chance
Cleveland Street has been 50 km/h for its entire length for at least 10 years. That speed camera is going to catch a lot of people, because at its location the road is 4 lanes wide – hardly looking like a 50 zone, and prior to its introduction, almost nobody followed the speed limit. That is one camera I’m pretty sure will get me one day when I forget myself.
well i now join the list of people who have been caught by this camera.
I was done twice within a week at 11.30 pm in the pouring rain doing 61 kph and again at 12.15am doing 71kph. I find this street is a maze of different street signs, very confusing indeed, [especialy when i am not from the city] the only sign i can honestly say i saw was the 40 kph school zone [and i was travelling well outside school time] As other people have said on here i to have had a perfect driving record. All in all i can accept that i was doing the wrong thing, but this area needs to be fixed up and lighting made better so you can see the signs more clearly. I think it would also help if the trees in the street were cut back so the signs could be seen a little better
interested to hear what you think
cheers
geoff
Speeding fines are all about revenue. Nothing else. A cop doing 50-100 over the speed limit to issue a 15km/h infringment is safe huh?
Because he took a driving course,…. so in his case, accidents do not happen.
But if I am skilled, and have been taught through the use of race tracks, and have my car /bike set up for speed, accidents do happen, and I need to be made an example of.
End of the day, if the cops, the gov, the public wanted to get serious about road safety, courses such as the driver offender programme would become compulsory for all drivers. Proper driver training would become mandatory, and the focus on speeding would be abolished.
Instead a focus on good driving would be introduced.
I am sick of hearing the bull argument that 120km/h is not safe.
Those who consider themselves to be safe, because they have not had a speeding fine, I would put through a testing facility, because that in itself is suspect. Foucs on the speedo means less attention to the road, and surrounding environment. And this pathetic excuse by the police and gov about saving lives… Well, this next few weeks, the police are not going to save lives.. to hurt the gov pockets… so they can get better salaries..
I think that speaks for itself.
I am glad I decided to read about this notorious camera fines at Cleveland Street. Moore Park.
On a Sunday night at 10:30 pm I saw a flash. As there were no other cars around I thought I may have been photographed by a speed camera and immediately checked my speed and it was 62km ph and thought no way! Yes way… couple of weeks later the fine, $197 and three points.
I am a law abiding citizen who respects police and the authorities. But in this case this is an out right robbery of drivers. This is an outright trap without any justification. Please see the following article.
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25856133-421,00.html
I will be going to court over this matter for the injustice done to me and all the others. Win or lose, I will report the results here.
Thanks to all those who took the time to discuss this issue .
Speeding -Cleveland St between South Dowling and Anzac Parade
I have been driving for 20 year and have never had a speeding ticket, let alone an accident of any kind. I’m the kind of person who pisses off other drivers cos I ‘m anal and I drive too slow. Anyhoo just got 2 speeding fines on consecutive days for that same spot both around midday -doesn’t say how fast I was going -just exceed 10km. If anyone has contested a ticket in this spot and been successful please write in to this forum and tell me how.
After opening my mail, I found a “penalty Notice” for EXCESS SPEED LIMIT 10KM/H AND UNDER – Camera Detected. You guessed it!!!Cleveland St, Moore Park, B/W South Dowling St & Anzac Parade.
Under 10km it said – The time was 5:01pm on Thursday 10th September. I ask you how is it possible to speed up Cleveland St ANYTIME let alone 5pm in peak hour traffic?
I am 65 and have been driving for 44 years. I have been driving up and down Cleveland Street for 44 years. Never can I recall EVER being able to speed along Cleveland St. There are too many sets of lights to gain enough speed to get to be speeding.
The reason I ended up on this forum is I asked the question “How long has the speed limit been 50 along Cleveland St, Moore Park?”
I notice the cab driver said it has been for over 10 years. Does anyone know where the signs are? Driving along Cleveland St requires a person to have all their wits about them. What with the right hand turning available at most sets of lights, drivers are always needing to change lanes to keep the flow of traffic.
I will be writing about this fine as it does not seem to be justified in my opinion. What was I doing? 51? 52? 53?
For those who have contested the Cleveland St Moore Park speeding fines, appreciate your updating outcome of appeal, and method, ie. by going to court, sending a letter etc..
I was fined four times after unknowingly exceeding speed limit on MoorePark/Cleveland St. during two weeks of June this year. I was under impression that the limit was 60 km/h (outside school times) in that zone.
On four occasions I was merging into Cleveland St. from the Anzac Parade and I could not see the speed limit sign, which unfortunately was placed (as I checked after receiving my first fine) at the very short distance to the merging lane in the shade of the nearby tree. During the merge I was busy observing traffic, pedestrians and bicycle movement, and by the time I merged I must have missed that sign. By the way I was unfamiliar with this area. I only started driving that way on the 15th June 2009. I received the first fine on the 29 June 2009, 10 days after the event. For 10 days I had a very limited chance to correct my wrong conviction about the speed limit. And I was unsure how many more fines I will receive.
Before that time I driven in that area in 2002. My vague recollection was that the speed limit was 60 km/h then but I am not sure. With the exception of the school, which has the speed limit 40km/h clearly marked along the road, and I was aware of it, the area is not built up, has parks around, therefore it did not occur to me that outside school hours it would be a default 50km/h zone.
I went to court. On that day there were four other people contesting speeding fines on Cleveland St.
There was an ‘advisor’ from the RTA there who told me that apparently the law is written in such a way, that even if you physically did not have a chance to see the speed limit sign (for example because it was placed on the stretch of the road before the place where you entered it) you are still guilty of disobeying the speed limit. So I decided to plea ‘guilty with explanation’, because I thought that perhaps I can point out the unfairness of the situation.
The judge was sympathetic and quite randomly cancelled two of my fines but the court does not deal with the demerit points. So after paying the court costs, I am still facing having my license suspended.
By the way the judge suggested contacting our local MPs about this camera.
I have also send the letter to RTA asking for consideration but all I can say this is one more stress you do not want in your life
I understand that in Victoria speed cameras have no signs to warn drivers, unlike NSW. After shocking accidents that continue to occur, perhaps its time to remove all speed camera warning signs in NSW.
In addition Red light cameras should also be changed to include speed cameras.
If people wish to continue to speed, then the penalties and points will soon catch up, hopefully before someone’s life or injury becomes at risk.
Its not a matter of revenue, its a matter of safe driving and reducing risk to temselves and others.
All additional income to be placed to road improvements and more unmarked speed cameras.
This page stands as a bookmark for people who have been travelling at otherwise safe speed,yet been caught by this camera.
So I should note for the record that the RTA have had to install temporary electronic signs warning about the 50 zone, and the camera.
Clearly someone there realised the existing (non-existent) signage was a problem.
Perhaps this will help someone in court.
Red Light Camera Penality Notice
I travel Parramatta Rd every day to work. I was issued a Red Light Penality Notice 6 Weeks after the offence. I reviewed the images from Web site and the following is noted.
First Image shows my vehicle rear wheels crossing the white line entering the intersection barking as on the exit side I was preparting to stop as there was only one Car Lengths vacant on the exit side. I had crossed the Stop line prior to the Predestrian marked zone at the interection being amber. My speed was slow as Vehicles where stopped ahead leaving one space beyound exit line of the intersection.
I maintain I had entered the intersection and beleive excessive braking was unsafe. Light turned red as after my front wheels entered the intersection. I continued crossing the intersection, Sensor was triggered by my rear wheels.
Second image shows my vehicle approx 1.5 Metres from Exit Line of the intersection braking as I proceeded to stop behine, stationary vehicles in my lane ahead. Image shows second vehicle stopped in the lane next to mine auable to move forward and exit the intersection.
I entered the Intersection under normal driving condition as the lights turned amber I was braking as vehicles ahead had stopped leaving about one vehicle length for my vehicle to stop on the exit side.
I am confused reading the road rules in RTA Handbook ” Yellow ( Amber ) means stop, you may enter the intersection if you are so close that sudden braking may cause an accident.”
Speed limit is 60KM/H and Yellow is set at four seconds, then Red is displayed and at this point the sensor activates Camera to take images if vehicle cross over the Road Sensor. Is this sensor located prior to Stop Line before the Pedestrian Crossing Zone or at the intersection entry. My vehicle had crossed the stop line, passed through the Marked Pedestrian Zone and my front wheels and majority of my vehicle length had entered the intersection and only my rear wheels are behind entry line of the intersection and about to exit the pedestrian marked zone.
I have been driving for 11 Years to work along Parramatta RD. I fully agree with Red Light Cameras. Image number one should clearly show vehicle behind the Stop Line then second image shows vehicle entering the intersection.
This morning, I got a $253 fine from the policemen who hid behind a tree and used the camera to make the video clip as the evidence. The reason for the fine is I didn’t stop at the stop line.
Few points that make me feel disappointed and unfair.
1. RTA should make a better warning signal or clear sign in front of or at the stop point if the government wants to reduce the accident, instead of using it as a way to generate revenue.
2. I drove along Sutherland road from Beecroft to Cheltenham (NSW) direction. In my (or many people’s) practice, turning car should give way to straight at the T junction. I was caught at 94 Sutherland Road where the sign shows that I needed to stop and give way to the side road (Copeland road). Seems the road design doesn’t match with the international traffic practice.
3. The fine is nearly half of my weekly income. If the gov wants to reduce the accident by means of raising the fine amount why it is not A$10000 or jail for 1year. I guarantee no more offence happened again. If I stay at home without car and apply for dole from Centrelink, After all my net income would be the same. So, why do I work?
4. As I know (overall) traffic fine to average personal income ratio in NSW Australia is nearly the highest one in the world. Plus high and complicated tax and high interest rate, I wonder how people can survive in Sydney.
Adding tax – which is clearly the goal of the new revenue generating activities, are designed to catch ordinary people breaking the law by tiny incriments. TINY INCRIMENTS is they key to this and it’s immoral to charge so much for these tiny infringements. When we are all turned into ROBOTS and there is no need to account for tiny amounts of human error then these infringements will makes sense. I can’t believe anyone agree’s this is ok. We should be marching in the streets against this.
I got flashed the other day on cleveland st. I thought it was a 60knh zone. Does any1 now how long it takes to recive the fine in the mail.
I received a fine for doing 63Kph on Cleveland Street between Anzac Pde and Sth Dowling Street. There are no speed limit signs! How is it a built up area between fields? Coming from Anzac Parade (70kph) into Cleveland Street, no speed limit sign. Surely, there should be a sign when there is a change of speed limit! Out my way the main roads are 60kph and it is only when going through back streets that they are 50kph. I’m going to court.
I believe it is all about revenue. I completely agree with demerit points system but any monetary penalty is not fair as those have completely different consequences dependable on family income. Monetary penalties may actually put a lot of stress on hard working families. I am driving for 22 years and was booked once for doing 106 in 100 zone. Obviously, my penalty was revenue driven. We all humans and we do make mistakes, knowingly or unknowingly. You will eventually be couth doing something against rules if you are human. The question is when not if. I would agree with monetary penalty for serious offences where it is obvious, it was intentional but for minor offences, I believe any monetary penalty if revenue generator for government.
The Police Services and Government Agencies in Australia are the most fine and demerit corrupt institutions that I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. As far as I am concerned they are Road Nazis and should pull their collective heads in. What they do here in Australia should be illegal and banned, but the greedy money mongers in parliament with their wasteful, ambiguous spending habits propogate this course of action. If there were not so many dodgey politicians with personal agendas, and they actually gave a crap about the taxpayers, and they would stop surfing porn at work, maybe they could actually make a move to move this country forward and help the taxpayers, rather than bash them like baby seals everytime they step out of the comfort of their overvalued homes!
Traveling down Cleveland street (more park) at 1:30 am, not a car in sight doing 68, which seemed reasonable given the main road/highway like nature of the road.. I had never been on the road before. Has anyone contested this camera and won? If they are still going to take your points regardless of the outcome there isn’t any point taking a day off work for court anyway is there?
Never had a speeding fine till I went up cleveland street between south Dowling and Anzac parade had to pick up the grand kids. Dont recall seeing a sign it seems it goes from 70 to 50 in a flash yeah the camera flashes tooooooooooo…………Got two in five minutes one going and one doming back……..its a revenue raiser signs should be more clearer.
Six dead on NSW roads already this weekend and what do I see today. A Highway Patrolman with a handheld radar detector. Where? Hidden behind parked cars in a backstreet of Gateshead (suburb of Newcastle, NSW) in a 50kph zone. School holidays, Double demerits. How proud he must be out there saving lives.
I have just received a penalty notice in the mail for $93.00. I was travelling east going 60 klms along Cleveland St bewteen Sth Dowling and Anzac Pde on a saturday morning at 7.00am. For the life of me I am trying to remember where the 50klm sign might have been or the speed camera sign. I was probably concentrating on the road and the lane I needed to be in as I was in unfamiliar territory. I do remember thinking how beautiful trees were that overhang the street. I too have been driving for around 37 years and do not live in the city I am from Nowra about 200klms away so not at all familiar with the area. My fine says I was going 60klms which I believed to be the speed limit if I had intended to speed I would have been going faster than 60klms. Does anyone know where you can go to on the internet to view this part of the street and see the 50klm sign.