Indicating is the act of using your blinker to show other motorists that you intend to change your course of direction. It is not a courtesy, it is the law. Despite this, road users are being surprised by the movements of motorists who did not indicate.
The Road Rules 2008 states that before changing directions, a driver must give a change of direction signal for long enough to give sufficient warning to other drivers and pedestrians.
Rule 45, ‘What is changing direction’, of the Road Rules 2008 reads:
(1) A driver changes direction if the driver changes direction to the left or the driver changes direction to the right.
A driver changes direction by doing any of the following:
(a) turning
(b) changing marked lanes
(c) diverging
(d) entering a marked lane, or a line of traffic
(e) moving to the right or left from a stationary position
(f) turning into a marked lane, or a line of traffic, from a median strip parking area
(g) making a U-turn
(h) at a T-intersection where the continuing road curves—leaving the continuing road to proceed straight ahead onto the terminating road.
Failing to indicate can result in a maximum $2,200 fine at court and the loss of two demerit points. The severity of the fine is indicative of the seriousness of not using your blinker to warn other road users of your movements. Not indicating is dangerous not only at high speeds on motorways but at all times on all roads.
Have you encountered the problem of motorists not indicating? Do you think it is becoming more of an issue on our roads?
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There is definately a lost art of indicating on our roads. Drivers out there think they ‘own the road’ and all it really shows is just how uneducated and arrogant they really are.
The thing that really gets up my nose is when you blast them, they think they have done no wrong. Again, uneducated and immature arrogance is shown.
You all know who you are, so grow up, learn the road rules and start using your indicator, before a car or truck bigger than you runs over the top of your car and you do not get to see anymore daylight!!
WAKE UP!
Indicating means showing that you intend to do something like changing lanes or turning. Too many drivers indicate when they have already commenced their actions, which really defeats the purpose – very frustrating.
I live in Port Macquarie and the amount of elderly drivers and learner/provisional drivers out numbers the rest of us. Not only are drivers around here not indicating their change of direction, but they are also indicating that they are turning when they have every intention of going straight ahead! I have nearly come unstuck several times because of this, about to pull out, thinking that they are turning, then hesitating and stopping when I realise that they aren’t!
Port Macquarie is also renowned for round abouts. The majority of the population here do not know how to use one, and definitely don’t know how to indicate which direction they leave one. There needs to be more education about road rules when drivers initially learn to drive, and for those who have been driving for centuries should have some re-education. Just like those of us who work in certain professions, such as the medical field. These people need constant re-education to keep up with the current changes and advancements, and I believe we all could do with it when it comes to our driving.
Just because someone has been driving for decades and has never had a ticket of any description does not necessarily make them a good driver. Just a lucky one.
I’ve been driving for more than 25 years, and I have noticed a steady decline on the number of drivers who use their indicators. Not including the new “indicate to leave a round-about rule”, generally motorists do not consider the impact they have on other road users when they do not indicate as required by the current laws. I’ve seen it all – motorists who do not indicate to change lanes, when pulling out or pulling into a kerb, and even lacking to indicate a blatent left to right turn. It leaves the rest of us ‘guessing’ what they are planning on doing and it’s down-right dangerous. Forget about the road rule aspect – I see it as more of a courtesy to other road users – to let them know exactly what I plan to do and when – perhaps the new generation of road users see indicators as a ‘nice to have’ but not a necessary part of everyday driving?
It never ceases to amaze me how many people move into a turning lane, and then once they’re in it, decide to indicate. I ride a motorcycle, and motorists who don’t indicate are the biggest risk to my safety.
At it’s most base form, indicating is courtesy, advising those around you of your intentions. It doesn’t take much effort to flick the lever once for on, once for off. Some drivers flick the indicator to flash once – if you blink, you miss it.
Quite often, a ‘safe driving distance’ between cars is seen as an invitation for others to queue-jump. I can only assume that because this is viewed as an invitation, they don’t feel the need to be courteous and indicate their intended movements.
Are we losing the “art of indicating” – Most definately!
I find a lot of friends when they presume there are no other road users around don’t bother indicating. Those who indulge is this dangerous practice assume they are all seeing. What about pedestrians, who are road users too, who cannot be seen in the dark? This practice also creates bad habits that still persist at busier times.
Failure to indicate is closely related to inadequate indication. Other road users need time to see and respond to indicators.
Turning on an indicator is an INDICATION something you want to do as a driver, it DOES NOT necassarily give the indicator the right of way. One should always check before changing direction.
Stay safe, let others stay safe too, by letting everyone know what you want to do – BEFORE you do it.
It always amazes me how people expect you know exactly what they are upto yet fail the basics of indicating. (I lost my crystal ball years ago)
As a motorbike rider I was always told to indicate as its not when you see others vehicles on the road to indicate “to”, but the moments when you can’t see the other vehicles that you are most at risk. If they are failing to indicate because they think no one else can see them anyway, then they are fooling themselves more than they know.
Firstly, I indicate, every time.
Secondly, I understand why a lot of drivers don’t indicate. Certainly in Canberra and to a lesser extent in Sydney I noticed that other drivers will see the indicator and speed up to stop someone ‘getting in front of them’ or refuse to make room in a merge point. I’ve long since lost count of the number of times I’ve seen someone refuse to let me in to a merging lane or deliberately place their car right beside me to stop a lane change.
In this case, not using an indicator is a safety decision!
‘Mars”s answer above is a simplistic view of a more complex social topic. One defined by changes to societies expectations regarding interpersonal respect.
Personally I can live with people not indicating, take for instance one incident I had last week. I went too slowly around a 90 degree corner (in traffic with the sun right on the horizon and directly ahead) for the driver behind me. A 10 second blast of his horn followed. It was an 80kmph zone and I was travelling with traffic at 85kmph. The driver them overtook over double white lines and proceeded to wash his windscreen for a prolonged period before giving me the finger.
It’s driver such as this that are a far far greater risk on our roads than someone simply not indicating. I believe both behaviours are representative of the aggression and intolerance that has crept into society.
Is it time the population grew up?
It’s amazing how many drivers neglect to indicate that they are changing lanes or do so at the very last moment & just expect other drivers to give way as if it’s their god given right.
Totally agree with Mars from Sydney. Where I have noticed the biggest drop in indicator use is in the everyday shopping carpark. The amount of times I am following a car that all of a sudden stops, without indicating, puts reverse lights on and expects me to just know where they are going is really frustrating. Also when going up and down ramps to next levels no indicators are used. And as Mars said, you blast them and they honestly have no idea what they have done wrong or don’t care.
The more expensive the car, the less the blinkers are used!!!
Cars have blinkers??? I thought my car was specially kitted out… or maybe has blinkers because it’s cheap. Venus is right – definite correlation between expensive cars and no blinkers. Perhaps it’s an optional extra?? But people with expensive cars rarely think the rules apply to them.
yes, this is a huge issue, as is pushing in when changing lanes – like the idiot I encounted in the red proton this morning who decided to both change on top of me (I’m on a motorbike), and also not indicate – sounding the horn had no effect – he just didnt care….I think he may have cared more if I kicked his car – I work with a UK expat who used to kick cars in the UK if they cut him off in dangerous conditions.
The fact is, the whole lane changing thing is not policed – the RTA only seem to care about having drink driving and speeding policed.
I think those overhead road signs that read “Police now targeting speeding” etc shoud just read “Police now targeting YOU”
Lets add the arrogance of drivers who expect you to give way to them merging when their lane ends.
Let’s just face it. Road rules and driving revolves around basic common courtesy and etiquette. Something which is seriously lacking in todays me, me, me focused world.
Not only is a lack of indication frustating as a driver but it’s so dangerous as a pedestrian. I have to ‘assume’ all cars in the left hand lane are turning left just in case. I dont know how many times I’ve nearly been hit. But I do enjoy throwing my hands up in the air at them and having a bit of a yell. They look sheepish and I feel better. Don’t get me started on cars not stopping at pedestrian crossings…. I cant believe so many people are so busy living in their own world that they just dont care about anyone around them.
My favourite is cars leaving the kerb without indicating – putting pedestrians and cyclists at risk as well as the traffic behind them.
Will the average driver take “courtesy” road rules seriously if the police don’t take them seriously by issuing fines? “Courtesy” road rules eg using a mobile phone, using an indicator, keeping left unless overtaking, J walking, etc?
I agree that more and more drivers now think it’s too much effort to lift a finger to flick the indicator. That makes it so difficult for drivers and, worse, for pedestrians (should they cross the road, or should they just wait for all the cars to disappear before they cross?).
Perhaps those drivers need to be educated or re-educated of the Road Rules and the financial consequence (amongst other things) if and when those rules get enforced!
My husband is one of those who puts his indicator on at the last minute- or most of the time after he has already started to turn or move into the next lane. It is really irritating to me and the driver behind. I’m teaching my son to drive at the moment and this is one bad habit I won’t be letting him pick up.
I am 19 and have been driving for only two years. I was taught by my parents who have been driving for 30+ years. Not once have they said to me that you don’t need to indicate when moving lanes or turning. Why do these people think they are different? It isn’t a matter of aghhhh it doesn’t matter it’s just a stupid rule. It’s to let people know what you are doing. You are driving a moving weapon and should behave accordingly. How hard really is it to move one finger in a up or downwards position to indicate?
I think the use of indicators by most people is related to how much G-force they are currently experiencing:
If they are merely changing lanes then there is not enough G-force experienced to make their indicator hand move;
If they are stopped at a light wanting to turn right it is only when they start moving and turning the wheel that the G-force kicks in and the indicator hand moves;
Similarly, if they are just turning through a sharp bend – where no indication is required – the G-force is strong enough to make them want to indicate…
strange race us humans!
And I do hate it as a pedestrian when car drivers feel they don’t need to let me know which way they are going just because I haven’t got any wheels or surrounded by a metal cage!
I’ve driven on every continent and in around 50 countries around the world. Australia has by far the least considerate / worst driving behaviour of all westernised countries I’ve been to.
In many countries, driving in a manner I consider as ‘standard Sydney driving habits’ would have you pulled out of the car and beaten to a pulp.
Examples of this:
- Extreme tailgating (eg car behind less than 3m away while travelling at 100kmh in a 100kmh zone)
- Failure to indicate at all. I’ve followed cars for 30 mins through thick traffic, watched multiple lane changes (in an attempt to queue jump) and multiple merges & turns without a single indication.
Also, there is a roundabout by my house and in the morning, you can sit there and watch 50 cars in a row all turn off before you without indicating, while you are waiting to pull onto the roundabout. If cars tried indicating, it would have greatly reduced the queue onto the roundabout.
- cars deliberately taking the wrong lane because the queue is shorter, then cutting into the correct lane at the last moment, causing havoc to both lanes. In five years of driving around Sydney, I’ve yet to take a trip where I didn’t see this behaviour on at least several occasions
- cars driving after dark with no lights on. Again, I haven’t ever driven in Sydney at night without seeing at least one car do this.
- lane hogging. Surely you are supposed to pull to the left when not overtaking? I’ve yet to see this done in practice here.
- failure to thank another driver who goes out of their way to accommodate idiotic, aggressive, queue jumping or general lousy driving.
- blocking other drivers when lanes merge, this should be done in a zipper-like manner, ie one from left, one from right. Not 4 from left while the right lane piles up.
- jumping traffic lights that have turned red. I have learned to wait a few seconds after green now as many times I have set off from my traffic light and nearly had a taxi or a ute steam into the side of my car because they jumped the lights.
I have noticed a correlation between the use of automatic gearboxes and driving standards. ie countries with a high prevalence of automatics tend to have the worst driving standards. Australia really needs to improve the quality of driving training and crack down on poor driving standards.
It tends to concentrate purely on speeding and drink driving because these are easy to prosecute, but lets drivers getting away with every other kind of lousy driving imaginable.
lt’s not just the lack of lndicator use. Many road users are lacking the general knowledge of several Road Rules. All Australian vehicle Drivers & Rider’s should do a revised practical and theory Assessment test everytime they renew their Licences (which should be done every 2 years); as there a TOO many lawbreakers on the Road that disobey even the simplest of Traffic Rules.
Have many of you noticed how a few Vehicles pass you on a multilaned Roadway going through the “40km/h maximum speed limit School Zones” and/or passing a Bus with it’s {School Bus 40km/h maximum speed limit “when lights flashing”} doing excessive speeds of 41km/h or more where there lSN’T Speed Cameras!
All Motorists that drive a Vehicle weighing more than 2 Tonnes should have a “LR” Light Rigid Drivers Licence (that includes 4×4/4WD’s & Commercial Pantechs/Delivery Vans); because of their tare weights being much heavier than Cars. Driving the above mentioned Vehicles is slightly different than just driving the average Car on the Road. Try doing a Defensive Driver Course & compare how steering a 4×4/4WD/Commercial Pantechs plus Delivery Vans goes with handling an “Emergency Stopping,Skid or Slalom Test” in comparison with doing the same thing in a Car. lt takes greater skill to driving a Vehicle weighing over 2 Tonnes; so therefore a higher grade Licence should be required to drive them.
Lloyd has hit a key change in some drivers mindset. The indicator is now deemed by some to give the LEGAL RIGHT to change lanes or merge without looking at the surrounding traffic. My daughter was involved in a minor accident a week or so ago where a driver moved ocross 2 lanes (including a bus lane) at Carlingford to make a left hand turn. He collided with my daughter and proceeded to abuse her because he had his indicator on. He felt he had every right to turn eratically and that it was her fault for not giving way to him.
I think the greater loss to society is the loss of consideration for those around you and your impact on them, as we see in the growing number of road rage on Sydney streets, but this is another pet hate and not for this forum.
I agree with you all – are there any non indicating people looking at this website though?
I’m glad there are some motor bike riders here who indicate – but you must drive when I’m not on the road or in a different location – the number of times I have had to brake suddenly because a motor bike has just swerved in front of me without indicating! Soooo dangerous for the motor bike rider – I suppose they want to get hit? Is that why they don’t indicate?
Mind you the majority of cars do the same (i’m definitely not leaving them out of this!!) I always make a habit of allowing plenty of room for merging IF the merger has indicated their intentions.
Hazard lights are another thing – if you are stopped in the middle lane of a 80km/hr road, wouldn’t it be a good idea to indicate that you are broken down?? Some people don’t seem to think it necessary…
I have always been taught to indicate 3 three telegraph poles before turning (left or right) or when changing lanes it’s blinker, mirror, check blind spot then change lanes.
In more recent years I have been a little lazy with indicating, but this is always only on quiet suburban streets, usually close to my place – not on highways, main roads, etc. Still not an excuse I know. Since being with my girlfriend, she has constantly reminded me to use my blinker EVERY TIME, no matter where I am. I am now back in the habit of doing so on every occasion.
The lack of use of indicators needs to be policed. If there are no consequences, people don’t care. Just like the use of the 24hr T2 lane on the M4 in the morning. In the past, I have used it illegally as was travelling alone. I have driven past police cars and they have never batted an eyelid.
I rely on other people using blinkers to let me know what actions I need to take when I’m driving but am cautious about the extent to which some of my driving decisions are made based on that.
I got caught in the local shopping carpark trying to get to the main exit road. A car without indicators had stopped but since it’s a shared pedestrian area this happens often. I waited and waited with my indicator showing that I intended to turn right. Eventually he waved me on with his hand – what? the indicator didn’t work maybe! Apparently his stopping should have alerted me to his intent to turn. So useless. As I drove past I yelled out to him that his blinker wasn’t working. Got a laugh from the pedestrians and hopefully made the driver think. Annoying though and there’s enough day to day stress without having to deal with a lack of courtesy on the road. But that’s only one instance and people not using indicators happens every day.
This is symtomatic of the whole issue of road safety, it is predicated on punishment and not education. The problem is that ordinary motorists can break rules with what they see as impunity i.e. they don’t get caught (except occasionally), thats why if you sit on the spedd limit everyone passes you, thats why you continually see people using mobiles.
If more effort was put into educating people as to courtesy and manners on the road I believe we could achieve a greater impact. Don’t ask me about roundabouts; I’ve seen signal left followed by signal right when going straight on. No signal at all when entering and then turning left, it is ridiculous.
I saw a police car in Parramatta last week change lanes into a right hand lane without indicating, and then stop at a set of lights. The right hand indicator went on a full 30 seconds after they stopped, (just as the lights turned green) obviously upsetting several drivers behind them who had mistakenly thought they were continuing straight ahead. Traffic was heavy. and it would have saved several headaches if we thought we could get away with yelling at them! It seems even the law keepers have difficulty understanding the basic road rules……..
I am a cyclist, and I signal every turn and merge, except when totally unsafe to do so (situations where its too dangerous to take both hands off the handlebars, eg. very bumpy corners). I think motorists appreciate it. I indicate when driving in all situations, no excuses. Even on an empty road in the dark. You never know when a pedestrian or unlit bike rider is going by! The absence of indicating shows how absorbed drivers are by themselves, their radio, phone, GPS, etc, etc. Cars dont need more gadgets, they’re dangerous enough as is!
Definately on the increase. Is it education? Arrogance? Or just as simple as not using ones brain. It’s good to see that so many poeple see this (at least on this web site anyway). If you let the driver know that their indicator is not working, they abuse you. Go figure! I thought it mustn’t be working so I let them know. Also, is it me or has there been a rule change on moving into an intersection when lights are green and there’s no Red arrow???? In the past few months I seem to have encountered this every time I’m on the road. Is it bad education or an over-cautious approach? I had a P-Plate driver reverse back onto me, when she had not fully moved into an intersection, and I gave her a little polite toot, toot. I didn’t blame her, as it can nerves, or is it bad education again?
Almost every Friday I take the god awful trudge up the F3 freeway from Sydney to Newcastle to visit family and friends. Observing many different types of vehicles and their driving habits was bred into me from a young age. Having been a Dominos driver for 12 months or so, you learn to keep an eye out for drivers with little or no driving skill.
I’ve noticed that the main offenders are those that purchase the urban SUV with their glowing GPS (at night) bright enough to cancel out any other on coming cars head lights, and their boots filled with enough weekend luggage to suit a small Scandinavian commune for the dark winter even though it’s the middle of summer in Australia.
The arrogance of the drivers are apparent as they sit in the right hand lane, blocking traffic for K’s, gingerly cruising at 108-109 km/h (or 104-105 km/h as displayed in big numbers on their GPS, being the true speed that they are traveling at).
You know on approach to such vehicles that the time and indication of such motorists change in direction will be whenever they feel like it, with no repercussions from the law enforces for performing (or lack there of), on the road.
The fact that they lack the skills to follow the laws should be enforced. I believe that such actions are more important to keep in check ,than minor speeding offences on highway or more importantly freeway roads. It is these careless decisions of motorists on these roadways that cause the accidents.
Indicating, just when you thought it was a fashionable thing to do, it is fading out, just like winter clothing this year. Nothin is worse then to sit in the right hand lane behind one car waiting for the green light so we can proceed straight ahead, but wait for it, the light does turn green and the car in front then uses their indicator that a decision has just been made to turn right, I don’t think so, they just do not have a care in the world for anyone else on the road but themselves.
Sorry Greg, it wasn’t me in the Proton that cut you off, but I did do it the other day when the rider was in my (right) blind spot even when I looked over my shoulder, however I did apoligise even after his aggression was unleashed, but I don’t think kicking in someone’s door is acceptable, property damage does make people more aggressive.
Drivers of any vehicle on our roads who don’t use indicators are dangerous drivers.No ifs or buts.It’s deadly, illegal, selfish and arrogant.We have a phone No. to report litterbugs who throw cigarettes etc from vehicles ,why can’t we have the same for dangerous drvers?.
Bob
A couple of observations on the indicator issue:
Yes indicator use is certainly in decline, including stopping at lights with multiple lanes, with no indication of an intention to turn right until the lights change, thereby jamming up the people behind.
The opposite is also happening more – people leaving their indicators on when, for example, approaching traffic waiting at a t-junction, and thereby causing the potential for accidents as cars pull out expecting the approaching car to turn.
I suspect that part of it is actually not betraying your intentions to make it easier to cut in when changing lanes – this goes with the phemonenon that if one leaves a reasonable distance to the car in front, it will be used to cut into the lane.
(As an aside, the other basic rule which seems to have gone out the window is that of not crossing unbroken double lines – rampant in Sydney.)
There is a roundabout near where I live. The number of drivers who do not indicate when they are turning (and making a RIGHT-HAND turn at that!) astounds me. There have been many near misses and it’s usually the person who hasn’t indicated that they are turning right who thinks they are in the right and the person who has attempted to enter the roundabout (rightfully thinking the other car is going straight) is in the wrong.
I have to agree with everyone, I too am a motorcycle rider and find clowns behind the wheel, first of all, do not look and then decide not to indicate. Venus from Canberra is so correct that interpersonal respect between other road users and, as Shaan states, “me, me, me” world we have become, is the main cause for the fools not indicating and then wondering why they are sitting in hospital when someone has slammed into them.
As I said before, you people that don’t indicate properly know who you are… WAKE UP! Before you are pushing up daisies from your own mistakes!!!
People who do not indicate their intentions are not just bloody annoying, they are dangerous and are causing dangerous situations on our roads every day.
Blinkers are meant to let others know of your intention to make a change. Unfortunately, too many people these days think of their blinker as a right to do something. If the blinker is on then watch out because there are changing lanes wether its clear or not!
peoples comments here are pretty well spot on …… but i find the post by Shaan (refer below) very frustrating. the comment mentions common courtesy and etiquette BUT also says that people are arrogant if they expect people to give way to them when their lane ends. grrrrr …. are you one of those people that fails to let people merge into your lane ??? of course people should expect to be let in – it is afterall COMMON COURTESY !!
Shaan Says:
September 2nd, 2009 at 11:50 am
Lets add the arrogance of drivers who expect you to give way to them merging when their lane ends.
Let’s just face it. Road rules and driving revolves around basic common courtesy and etiquette. Something which is seriously lacking in todays me, me, me focused world.
This blog entry is a joke, right?
Since when has an indicator EVER been used in NSW?
(Apart, of course, as a pair when illegally stopped…)
I’ve seen many people who really need a reeducation on driver courtesy and what teh lines on the road actually mean for them. I’m sure many feel the rules don’t apply to them.
People using indicators when they don’t need to effectively indicating incorrectly and those that don’t use them when they’re meant to. Refresher courses need to be linked to reregistration every 5 years at least to ensure we are all kept safer.
I think the decline in indication is a result of police not patrolling this offence as much as others. I know the dangers involved in not indicating are not as serious as drink driving and speeding but it is still causing
“preventable” accidents on our roads. A few of those $2,200 fines to a few people will hopefully spread the word to start indicating again.
Slightly off topic but hoops wrote:
September 2nd, 2009 at 2:20 pm
BUT also says that people are arrogant if they expect people to give way to them when their lane ends. grrrrr …. are you one of those people that fails to let people merge into your lane ??? of course people should expect to be let in – it is afterall COMMON COURTESY !!
Unfortunately in most circumstances most motorists always leave the lane change till the last minute. I feel no obligation to “let” someone in when they indicate to merge at any less than 100 meters in the city and 1km on the highway or freeway. For someone to say they did not have the opportunity to do so before hand is a lie as I never seem to have an issue safely merging when required well before my intended change of lane.
If you take notice of the flow of traffic, you’ll notice that such late changes create a sinuous wave effect, in some case effecting and banking up heavy traffic for kilometers.
Note: the beginning of the F3 freeway of a Friday afternoon.
Back on topic.
With reference to the above wave effect motion, failure to indicate means that the wave’s amplitude increases ie in most cases causing motorists to brake harder and increasing the flow on effect down the line of traffic.
We often complain that young drivers do not follow road rules when they are on the road. But what do you call when matured and in some cases aged persons do not indicate on the road even when they are carrying teens in their cars. Do not they have the responsibility to pass on the proper driving behaviour to the young ones?
Try riding a motorbike in the Easterns suburbs of Sydney amongst an army of large black four wheel drives!
Be afraid, be very very afraid.
There are experienced, confident drivers in NSW who will swear on their lives that indicating is only a courtesy and therefore don’t break a sweat when lane changing without that (legal) courtesy.
Andy? The List of grievances
Daniel? Wave effect of thoughtless selfish driving…
RIGHT ON
Have to agree with Daniel regarding merging. If people indicate well in advance they are likely to have a courteous response from people letting them in. If there is no gap in traffic you have to stop in the UK which makes sense!
However, regardless of all the whinging we have on this blog what are we going to do about?
Personally I think the misunderstanding and ignorance of Road Rules is simply down to the failing education system employed by the RTA! Namely the 120 hours of tuition required by so called licensed drivers who’s interpretation of the rules maybe out of touch may not have looked at the current Road Rules since they past their test which could have been decades ago, before there was ever a 3 lane road in Australia for example?
Then people being taught by these gain there own interpretation of the rules again and pass it onto the next person etc etc. It is therefore no surprise what we see on the road today!
The written test by the RTA is quite simply too easy!
My solution would be to make ten 1 hour lessons by professional driving instructors compulsary. These intructors would be regulated by the RTA and have a yearly assesment of the skills and knowledge. This would be so much more worthwile than 120 hours of tutoring from a family or friend.
Secondly the insurance industry should insure on a named driver basis so their history, age, experience can be truely assessed and set insurance premium more appropriate to the risk. This would stop anyone driving any car with permission any time.
Sure the cost of premium would go up if your teenage son or daughter wanted to use the family car , or if you had points on your licence etc, but in this unfortunate world where money talks, and along with the cost of professional lessons, this surely would encourage all to be more responsible???
Something needs to change or trialed as the current system is obviously not working and for me the RTA should be held responsible for most accidents and deaths on the roads until it does!
Indicating is definitely on the decline and tailgating is on the rise. Somehow we are suppose to be mind readers and intuitively know which lane or direction a total stranger is going to take. And when merging they just sit and wait for the merge lane to peter out before they decide to indicate and you’re on their tail because you’ve been waiting for them to indicate when they’re going to merge/move over. Indicating rules definitely need a refresh!
If there is two things that cause road rage, one is drivers not indicating and the other is driving slow in the right hand lane parallel to another car with no intention to overtake and let other drivers through. Drivers learn the road rules or get off the road!
I often get the feeling with new car and elite car owners believe that ‘Blinkers’ are an optional extra. My advice to them is 1) its not, it is a standard feature and 2) hello “It’s against the LAW” not to use them! C’mon Australia where has our common-sense gone? Not using ‘blinkers’ or ‘indicators’ at the right time can kill people, “even you”!
Another thing, why did they introduce clear blinker lenses with orange bulbs on our cars? It is often difficult to see them on a bright day.
I have recently returned to Canberra after a stint in Sydney for a couple of years and I honestly felt safer there. The amount of people that fail the basics like indicating is astounding. They either indicate at the last second or just drift across without any care for who is there. While the roads have plenty of space and traffic is not as bad as the true locals like to think people are still in a rush and blithely weave though traffic with no indicators to get that minute ahead. The worst one here is the amount of people who just don’t indicate to leave a roundabout. They can be going around to the right and just take their turn with the indicator still blinking right. I just don’t trust people anymore as you never know what they are really going to do. I don’t know how things can be improved as the mindset is hard to change once people get into bad habits. I have really noticed this in younger drivers (p platers) of both genders who are just downright dangerous in some cases. Some just think nothing of their fellow road users and believe they are bullet proof.
It seems this is not reserved for one group or drivers. It has worked its way into all levels of road users. It doesn’t matter if it is a Roller or a 20 year old Banger or whether the driver is a “professional” i.e. taxi, truck, HC etc. or red P (and sadly Yes, even Driving Instructors).
It is one of the most dangerous practices on our roads today and goes hand in hand with the theory “if I am in front then look out for me.”
So many idiots think that we all share their ability of mental telepathy and become so upset when given a toot for swooping across three lanes in heavy traffic.
I have presumed for some time that I will not be acknowledged as a bona fide road user and therefore treat all in front and to the side as higher plane mentalists who by a nod or raising of an eyebrow, touch of ear, texting a message etc etc, assert their intentions and act accordingly.
Just think; if we all abide by the rules then we would not need so many rules. Less complication. Less aggression.
motorists who don’t indicate are ignorant, arrogant or both. Given that I have NEVER seen anyone booked for this in 30 years of driving, why on earth would the lazy, morons bother? Road rules are great, but with hardly anyone being boked for breaking them, they are worthless.
Another problem is drivers that dont cancel their indicator after using them and sometimes drive for miles before turning them off.Dont they look at the instruments speedo,fuel gauge temp etc this is very common with trucks.
I am forming the opinion that blinkers don’t come standard on BMWs or 4WD vehicles as the owners have already paid to “own the road” and don’t consider a blinker necessary for changing lanes, or for indicating a turn at the next street.
Police are some of the worst offenders too. I rarely see them indicate to change lanes.
I also note that people who don’t *use* indicators don’t bother looking to see if anyone else uses them. When waiting to turn at a set of lights I’ll often get honked by drivers behind me who have completely ignored that I’ve had indicators on to give them ample warning that I am going to turn right.
Early this year a guy in a ute took off my passenger-side mirror when merging without signal into my lane. When he pulled over he said “but a bus was in front of me!” He really didn’t know that he didn’t have right of way to just plunge into another lane.
The RTA should run advertisements that show the effects of poor driving – notably lack of indicator usage, queuing across intersections, and bad merging.
I agree that indicating is abismal in Australia… except in one instance – buses. It may be a tangent, but I find it extremely confusing that buses indicate as if they are about to change lanes, when they are actually simply intending to go straight ahead. Wish something could be done about that…
I allways indicate when changing course no matter whether other cars are there or not. It is a good habit to get into and it definately prevents accidents, especially if you are unaware of another vehicle on your blind side.
I drive a car and ride a bike and just can’t believe how such a simple task as indicating is not used by all motorists.
I suppose it is difficult when some drivers insist on texting or talking on their mobiles.
Not indicating is just pure laziness and lack of courtesy to other road users be they other drivers, cyclists or pedestrians.
I wish police would hand out fines or cautions at the very least when they see drivers failing to indicate. How often have you sat patiently waiting for a car to pass so as to turn only to see it turn left or right – wasting your time and holding up traffic behind you.
Maybe they could amend that speeding ad where they wiggle their little finger to include drivers who don’t indicate – they must suffer some sort of debilitating injury that prevents them from flicking that indicator on!
Good to see the rant is alive and well!
I’m a firm believer that speed doesn’t kill, collisions do. Telling people what you’re planning to do, BEFORE you plan to do it, helps avoid collisions. So use your indicator correctly. Simple.
One blip of the indicator half way through changing lanes does not count.
Not indicating before the turn lane, entering the turn lane halfway down (grr) and then sitting there with your indicator on does not count.
Indicating right to exit the roundabout (huh?) or indicating right to go straight through the roundabout does not count.
Putting your indicator on so you can illegally double park does not count.
Putting your indicator on so you can do an illegal U turn at the lights does not count.
etc etc ad nauseam
I don’t understand why you would commence a lane change or turn & then only half way through decide to indicate. I had an accident fews years ago cause of the other person not indicating. It really frustrates me & everytime I have a near miss cause of it, it brings all my fears back. I really think there should be a campaign out there to remind people of the necessity of indicating.
I rarely encounter fellow road-users who fail to indicate, however I agree that the purpose of indicating -to give adequate warning of an intention to change direction- is being forgotten or not taught at all to drivers who do not take lessons from a professionally qualified driver. It places increased burden on competent, responsible, defensive drivers to keep the road safe. It is not hard to be co-operative and share the road thoughtfully.
I must also second Carolyn’s comments and hope that using an indicator is not considered to give the driver a right to change direction, but rather is used only after checking for on-coming traffic in the mirrors and blind spot.
Yes! I’m glad it’s not just me seeing this trend for lack of blickers! It happens all the time. Are people really that lazy these days? What annoys me is when I’m giving way and waiting at an intersection, waiting for a car who ends up turning into my street. If only they had used their blinker and/or used it earlier, I could have turned ages ago. It’s just common courtesy. As a pedestrian I was almost knocked over this evening by a driver who didn’t indicate they were turning. Are we supposed to be able to read their minds? Another gripe is people who queue across intersections, even when there’s a painted line and a sign saying not to. Another example of the lack of courtesy that exists on our roads these days.
Legally, you must indicate at least 5 seconds before you turn. This is what my driving instructor taught me back when I was learning to drive. I often indicate more than 5 seconds before turning if I’m on a 80+km/h road, if there are vechicles behind me, to let them know that I will be slowing down so that they can too.
It really annoys me when I get to an intersection, and wait a long time for a car, only to have the car slow down and turn without indicating. It gives me no idea of when I can go and when I can’t.
I have noticed that this has a dangerous side effect, that when I get to the same intersection again, I sometimes assume that a driver as forgotten to put their indicator on, and that they will turn, and that I can go. This is not always the case.
Something needs to be done about this. But, I feel as though police may not care enough, compared to enforcing speeding laws.
I came to Australia 12 years ago from UK (no i’m not a whingeing pom) and had to resit my driving license. I took several lessons to ensure I didn’t suffer the indignity of ending up on L’s after 20 years driving. The use of indicators was one of the greatest difference between the 2 countries and highlighted one of the weaknesses of the RTA and the road rules. For example, I took my test in Bondi Jn and you drive up Edgecliff Rd where you meet traffic lights at the T intersection with Oxford St. It is a left turn only intersection
Both lanes of traffic under Australian rules MUST indicate left. However in other countries because you can only turn left indicating is superfluous and serves no purpose. If you were in the right hand lane of the 2 lanes and indicated left then that would signal your intention to move into the left hand lane.
I think it’s this use of the indicator at all times which eventually turns people off using it. Better to use it (and your brain) when needed. I took my advance driving test in UK and nearly failed for using my indicator in some quiet back streets. In the examiners words- “who are you indicating to?”
Maybe we should be pressuring the RTA to re-examine the rules and the way we test our drivers.
More importantly why don’t drivers stop at STOP signs? Why are we allowed to hold the steering wheel from the inside when cornering – i even saw this on Ch7 with a NRMA driving instrctor and his pupil!
How about compulaory testing every 5 years?
Don’t get me started!!!
In relation to indicating your intention to change direction, some drivers appear to think that once they indicate the direction they can do so whether or not there is a space to enter.
At a roundabout I wait until I am certain which way the driver intends to travel as no indication is given in majority of cases.
Using indicators is definitely on the wane. I think it is a passive form of road rage, coupled with an attitude of I’m here for what I can get and stuff the rest of you.
Showing courtesy is not a law but it should be a rule, and not just on the roads.
I get very frustrated by the lack of indicating (and other previously-common driving rules) on the road today. Such a simple thing that some drivers are just too lazy or selfish to do.
Like many others have said, it’s either not done at all or it’s done at the same time they turn the wheel and cut you off. The other problem I face is when I pull up to parallel park, with my blinker on – some drivers don’t know what this means and pull up right behind me. When I start to reverse, they’re on the horn yelling abuse for blocking their way. This also goes for reverse parking in carparks, as I have a large car and was taught to reverse – people always try to go the wrong way around me and block me instead of waiting the few seconds while I park. I always wonder what they were taught when they were learning to drive, as that sort of stuff is common sense to me.
I realised yesterday that these days I’m having near-misses at least 2 or 3 times a day, compared to 10 years ago when I had a close call maybe once every fortnight. I used to love driving but now it’s just a necessity that’s a cause of stress.
I strongly believe the cause of most of our problems on the road at the moment is the change of licensing rules for L platers – now that they have to drive SO MANY hours to get their licences, the mums and dads out there who are forced to teach them are passing on some atrocious habits and attitudes. Young drivers are not being taught by certified instructors who are there to pass on good advice and instruction. I had 16 lessons in 1997 with an instructor who taught me the good ‘old-fashioned’ defensive driving method and it’s kept me reasonably safe for 12 years – especially now that I’m forced to anticipate other people’s moves.
I say bring back the licensing system from 1997, or make kids do at least 5 lessons with an instructor (subsidised by the govt) and then test the parents before they can teach, bring driver’s ed into schools to instill the right attitude to driving early, bring in a driving test for all drivers every 5 years to remind them off the rules.
I have no problem indicating when in a turn left or right lane only – as one should whenever changing direction (as the rules state) . These lanes are commonly located at intersections where other drivers need to know your intentions. This practice reinforces the use of your indicators at all times – not when the driver thinks it is necessary – this is why we are having this debate. If this courtesy is enough to “turns people off” they shouldn’t have a licence.
I must add – KEEP LEFT UNLESS OVERTAKING to the list of irritations.
Safe driving.
Less people seem to use indicators these days particularly to change lanes. Or they indicate once they’re actually in the middle of changing lanes – turning the indicator into a confirmator!
What really gets my goat, living in Sydney, is that when I put my indicator on to change lanes, it’s rare that a driver will let you in in front of him. It’s all very well to say ‘wait for a break in traffic’ but usually there isn’t one. Common courtesy is pretty rare in the big cities these days. Now on regular routes I get into the correct lane at least 1km in advance of where I need to turn off. Anal? Yup, but I think I need to be.
I’m usually courteous enough to let other drivers in when they want to change lanes – that could be me in five minutes’ time and I’d like to think that ‘car karma’ works.
Driving in Sydney, which teems with bad and arrogant drivers, is becoming more hair-raising by the day. Speeding motorists are not the problem (who can speed with all that traffic anyway!?), I think the traffic buildup is causing annoyance, frustration, impatience and road rage, and that has changed the way we behave towards others on the road.
Very common in the Hunter region for motorists to not use indicators in my experience. Worst perpetrators are P platers and drivers of expensive cars. Another group are gravel truck drivers. Solution? Police presence – constant and everywhere.
An overhaul of the way police work so that more officers are more visible would have a dramatic effect on all aspects of road behaviour.
Besides being the owner of 3 cars all of which do have indicators (one on the opposite side of the steering wheel) all are being used well and as per the rules…. I am also a cyclist and the use of indicators in cars is the only way I can guage where a car is going to go. I regularly ride the cycle lane on the M4 and there are so many cars that do not indicate that they are planning to exit. They are travelling at more than 100km/hr compared to a cyclist who has come to almost a stop to cross over the cycle merge point and to suddenly see a car coming at speed who has not indicated is very dangerous for the cyclist. Many drivers also seem to indicate after they have actually entered the exit lane…. I agree the art of indicating has changed – What are drivers thinking about when they are driving?
Indicating one’s intentions is certainly a diminishing habit in this day and age. Apart from being the law, I believe it’s called “courtesy and commonsense”. We would all be a lot safer in our vehicles if people thought before they acted and thought of others as well as themselves. Also, so many drivers don’t understand that an indicator doesn’t give right of way. The fact that you may indicate that you are changing lanes doesn’t give you the right to force someone else to brake to let you in. And if someone does let you in, acknowledge their action with a “thank you” wave. It ain’t that hard!
To add to Peter’s “keep left unles overtaking” irritation, I would like to include running red lights. An amber light means only proceed if you can cross the intersection before the light turns red. It doesn’t mean put your foot down and endanger everyone else. It is a dangerous and ever increasing habit in my observations.
There has definitely been an increase in the number of drivers failing to indicate when required. I have been driving for 37 years and have noticed the failure to indicate seems to have become much more common in the last ten years or so, particularly in Sydney, where I live.
It happens throughout the Sydney area and on every tollway and freeway. Every time I travel on the F3 I see drivers failing to indicate while they are driving at high speed. Often this happens at night or when drivers are travelling too close to other vehicles.
I believe that the decline in the use of indicators stems from an increase in aggressive driving and a general lack of consideration for others that has developed in the behaviour of too many Sydney drivers. It’s the same sort of attitude that is demonstrated by stopping or parking in No Stopping zones; parking on or beside pedestrian crossings at traffic lights (common practice in the eastern suburbs); impatiently overtaking a car at a left turn when the car is waiting for pedestrians to cross while the green “walk” sign is flashing; doing a U-turn across a double line in the middle of traffic in New South Head Road… all examples of selfish behaviour endangering others.
Like an old school ma’am, I shake my index finger at the culprits. It’s amazing the effect it has on grown men and women especially if you can make eye contact – try it!,
I am convinced that nearly all new model cars built in the last 2-3 years are not fitted with indicators any more as they appear to be the ones not using them, (I drive a vehicle built within this time frame and luckily they were not an optional extra). It also does not have anything to do with age there are just mindless drivers out and about. Maybe we should all take a course in reading minds then we will know in which direction everyone is going.
Not indicating is my absolute road peeve. I am not a mind reader! Indicating is the way cars talk to each other on the road. But there is no education campaign and the police do absolutely nothing about it – in fact I have seen police not indicating!
I am amazed at how few people know or care how to indicate in roundabouts. Is it a country town thing, or is it universal. Where I live, you just have to wait until they’ve finished their move to know what they intended to do! Those that do indicate get it wrong, indicating right turn, and then exit left etc etc. It seems to me that this behaviour negates the whole purpose of roundabouts. i.e to keep traffic flowing safely through the intersection, with few back ups of traffic.
All the foregoing comments show the slackness of NSW drivers in obeying the law. Laws are no good unless they are policed. When was the last time you heard of anyone being booked for failing to indicate correctly?
Perhaps a “community service” advertising campaign could be undertaken by the TV stations to bring the indicator problem (and maybe others as well) to the attention of the public. Certainly the behaviour of drivers of all ages show that there are a lot of people with the IQ of cheese driving motor vehicles which can kill.
Certainly stepping into a 4wd seems to have the effect of reducing otherwise intelligent people to the level of someone who should have a job as a speed-hump.
We need to wake people up. How about a police blitz on indicators one week?
Indicating your intentions whilst in control of a weapon is just plain common sense – nothing more. Any motorist failing to do so is an idiot and should pay the fine – bookem Danno!
Have decided that many vehicles simply do not have indicators .. must be true, or, they do not work! Have noticed some do work only after the vehicle has started to turn, change lanes, exit a roundabout, zip in and out of the traffic . Car manufacturers should be more considerate!
Also very aware so many speedometers are set incorrectly. Has to be the case for, I cheat on the highways, easing my speed up to 5k over the limit and am constantly passed by numerous cars? No doubt some have serious problems, seemingly their speedometer can’t work at all otherwise, why would they pass me at double my speed?
If only life was perfect.
It’s very difficult to steer and use an indicator at the same time when you are;
1. On the telephone;
2. Texting;
3. Selecting the next track on your iPod (with ear pugs in);
4. Changing the CD;
5. Watching the in-dash DVD/TV;
6. Entering the destination in the GPS;
7. Reading emails on a Blackberry;
8. Navigating through the car’s on-board information system;
9. Having a deep & meaningful conversation with passenger(s);
10. Busy doing non-driving related activities.
Mind you, indicators serve a very useful purpose when you need to impose your prescence;
1. In front of a crowded, moving bus when crossing a bus lane;
2. In front of a B Double because you are turning at the next intersection;
3. In front of a bicyclist because they might pass you at the next set of lights;
4. In front of motor cyclist to let them know you are changing lanes regardless of their prescence;
5. Into the overtaking lane because other drivers keep overtaking you.
6. In front of another vehicle because to merge or change lanes behind it would be to admit of defeat.
Drivers aren’t using indicators less, they just use them for the wrong
reasons. Unfortunately, everytime I try to use the indicators, I wash the windshield. Never could remember if the indicator was on the left or the right, heck, why bother indicating.
My understanding for practical, legal and courteous use of the indicator is that it’s use varies according to circumstances. We’ve all had the one flick of an indicator as a car is already changing lanes i.e. no warning, no courtesy and no understanding of indicator use. The faster a car is travelling, the earlier the driver needs to indicate is a rule of thumb … but not sure it is legally explained by the law. I often see cars move into a turn right/left lane and indicated once they are in that lane – therefore no compliance with changing lane indication. I also see cars indicate moving into a turn left/right lane and then turn off their indicator – NRMA have said in their magazine that the driver is obliged to continue indicating and that makes sense to oncoming traffic or pedestrians who are trying to read traffic flow. Another pet hate are cars that are looking to merge into general traffic but it is not a merge situation if their is a broken line to cross – in such a situation, the driver has to give way and ‘through traffic’ has right of way.
You shouldn’t have started me on this one!!
At roundabouts some going staight have right blinker on, some have no blinker (this is better) and some use a few quick left blinker flashes (as they pass the left entry) to indicate they are not going right is the correct way. Newly licensed drivers do it the correct way. Smart drivers always do it the correct way. Some think going fast at a roundabout and that those on their left should give way even if they have been waiting there in the roundabout for a long time. They let through ignorant drivers on their right who are streaming along without slowing down and blowing their horn in rage if they decide to go. The driver on the left has been waiting there in the roundabout a long time before the ignorant drivers on their right were even close to the roundabout but because they are streaming along all close together they think it is their right of way and do not understand thet the first in the rounabout has the right of way provided they slow down as they approach. Once I waited over a minute for a fast stream of close together cars from my right.
I decided I had to go and went as quickly as I could but of course was met with a furious driver who was originally 100m up the road back on my right when I got in the roundabout.
I see this at every busy roundabout.
Not indicating, along with the illegal use of fog lights are the two most inconsiderate actions a driver does, which undoubtedly causes a great amount of stress to other drivers. Every driver should be taught that they are in control(?) of a lethal weapon………….and doing something wrong has the potential to cause DEATH.
Mick
There is definitely a noticeable increase in the incidences of failing to use indicators. In fact, there is an increase in bad behaviour on the roads generally, paiticularly tail gating, speeding, not keeping to the left on freeways when not overtaking etc.
Please people, I cannot get inside your heads and know when you intend to change lanes, stop to park etc. Use some common good olde fashioned courtesy and use your indicators. Additionally, please use them “before” your move not as you are finishing it and I’m sent careering off into the oncoming traffic! It is truely a damming indictment of how we don’t care for each other as fellow visitors to this planet!!
I run a business that does its own pickups and deliveries. I had one truck involved in a serious accident as a result of a driver in front sewerving to miss a broken down vehicle on a freeway without indicating. The driver who did not indicate was blocking our vehicles view. This vehicle left our driver no option but to run up the back of the broken down vehicle. Trucks need warning and time to respond. There are good reasons for indicating. Failure to do so can kill.
It would be useful to have a TV ad campaign refreshing some useful driving skills for many seasoned and new drivers who fail to or forget to use them. It would be good to show not only the dreadful consequences like injuries and death but also just an irritating nuisance of having your car out of action after small collisions which could be avoided, if drivers kept good habits of informing each other about their intentions.
Interestingly I have not noticed a correlation with gender, age, experience or wealth in disobeying a rule of indicating. Everybody seems to have their bad moments without thinking of consequences
Having been taught to drive in the UK and having driven there for 10 years before moving to Australia, I have often wondered whether drivers are actually taught to use their indicators in Australia. It seems to me that if used at all, they are regarded more as ‘confirmators’ to be flicked twice to confirm the manoeuvre that the driver is already halfway through.
Very rarely do I actually see someone indicate well before making a turn or a lane change.
My observation is that the offenders are all ages and both sexes. But it seems to me to be mainly 4WD’s and ‘prestige’ cars. Am I imagining it?
When I first came to Australia in 1975, I used to joke that indicators might as well be optional on cars, since so few people used them – and I have not really had much reason to change my mind, unfortunately…… other optional items on my list were side and rear view mirrors…..
And if it is allowed to add one other irritation may that be the “hay waggon move” – people who when wanting to turn right (as indicated
) do not move over to the road’s midline, or even move over to the left side of the road? As if they needed the room required to-day by semitrailers or in days past, by long drays…..
I find it particularly common and frustrating at round-abouts. You sit there waiting for the car approaching on your right to pass through the intersection and suddenly they turn left without indicating.
I usually drive but recently, due to medical reasons, my wife has been chauffeuring me around and I realised she was not using the turn indicators in situations I normally would. When I asked her why she said she only indicates if she sees another car around. I pointed out to her that a car may not appear until she was about to turn or change lanes and, if she was not already indicating, the other driver may assume she is doing something different from what she intends and an accident is more likely to occur. She relunctantly agreed with me.
Another place where drivers sometimes query the need to indicate is where they are in a dedicated right (or left) turn lane usually controlled by traffic signals (or signalisation). In most cases a driver needs to indicate before reaching the intersection that they are taking that lane but, once in it and committed to the turn, why sit there for up to 2 minutes with the indicators on, as they have committed to be in the dedicated lane.
Also here in Canberra we have a confusing mixture of roundabout types. Some are so large that the rule requiring you to signal your intentions on entry and also when you intend to exit is obviously applicable but there are many small ones at intersections where they have been installed to give ad hoc traffic a chance to enter the intersection under the roundabout rules rather than controlling the intersection by Give Way or Stop signs. At these small roundabouts most drivers do not use their indicators as at most there would be one flash of the indicators as they exit so they ignore the rule really devised for clarifying what to do at large roundabouts.
My feeling is that the rules mandating when indicators need to be used need to be revisited by the Road Safety Authorities to clarify the situations I have mentioned above.
I have noticed that quite a lot of people who do use indicators, believe that it gives them the right to move into the lane that they want to, whether or not it is clear to do so. The bigggest problem with non-0use of indicators is in round-abouts as most drivers have no idea when or how to enter or leave a round-about.
Just had a P-Plater wander into my lane without indicating (or checking his blind spots or mirrors) across a solid white line – I had to brake. A few minutes later he wandered from that lane back to the one he came from, also not indicating or checking. So many laws broken in such a short time. Learner drivers don’t need more time on the road with parents who pass on their bad driving, they need better instruction.
Even worse than not looking when changing lanes is not indicating. As a motorcyclist, I see way too much of it. The other pet hate is those motorists who indicate about 3 metres before the corner, way too late for those following to react.
How annoying is it when you are waiting at an intersection to turn right and the approaching vehicle waits until almost at the corner to indicate that they are turning left?
How annoying is it when you are waiting at a roundabout and the approaching vehicle has their right turn indicator on and then goes straight ahead?
Common courtesy should be practised in these and many other circumstances. If every driver took time to consider other drivers there would be a whole lot less “Road Rage”. Is it bad education or slackness that makes drivers do the most thoughtless things whilst in control of a vehicle?
I recently moved from Sydney to the Hunter & am amazed at the widespread failure to follow the most basic road rules. Non use of indicators, speeding, crossing double lines, passing on the road shoulder, driving on the wrong side of the road, not stopping or giving way at stop signs etc as well as the usual rounabout issues. It’s staggering. I suspect that in Sydney there were so many cars crammed together that drivers simply didn’t have the opportunity to misbehave. In the country it’s become the wild west. An increasing problem also is cars with four headlights. Not only do they blind oncoming drivers but on those rare occasions when indicators are used it’s almost impossible to see them due to the glare of the two headlights beside them.
And the worst offenders are drivers of Taxis & 4 Wheel Drives. Not far behind are Red “P” platers
I have been driving since 1966. I am a non practicing B-Double driver (still in the industry), having driven articulated vehicles since 1974. This problem has always been evident (nationally) since this time but now the problem has actually developed a step further. A very large number of drivers now change lanes with no signal, at speed and where there is clearly no room. They barge their way in with absolutely no care as if thier movement has right of way. It ‘s simple to tag them as a moron or other simialar name but they are a genuine danger to the community. I notice many of these same non signalling drivers need to move over into the left lane prior to turning right and vice versa for a left hand turn when I can make the same turn (in some cases) in a B-Double while staying 100% in my lane. Are they just simply incompetent? This would indicate poor training and poor license approval.
I oftern think people do not know their left from their right and subsequently how to use the indicaor system in their vehicle. I find it increasingly annoying that indicators are not used.
But where are the law enforcers on this isse?
I currently live in Canberra (having lived in two other states) and Canberrans are the worst users of indicators in Australia. Obviously your car has a better resale value if the indicators aren’t used. If they are used it is often an historical event ie after the change has happened. You are expected to be a mind reader. I am now shocked if people do indicate.
The use of indicators is about common courtesy something that is badly lacking in all elements of society at the moment.
The NSW police have no interest in this offence – as a matter of fact, most police cars I have seen on the road don’t use their indicaters either. How can they book you for something that they are guilty of themselves?
The thing that sends me crazy are drivers who sit in the right hand lane, waiting for a few minutes for a green light, and then indicating a righthand turn AS THEY ACTUALLY DO IT!! No hint of any prior intention!
I agree people are either using their indicators less or not at all, especially compared with when I first got my licence about 35 years ago.
I find alot of the comments to be true and seem to look at what people are or are not doing rather than why!
Venus from Canberra starts to address this issue saying it is a societal thing, with intolerance and aggession on the rise, hence the greater incidence of road rage, for which incorrect indicating can be an additional contributory factor.
People have to learn to respect themselves first and in this way they may learn to respect others. Which hopefully will lead to greater patience and tolerance for others.
We can all keep playing the blame game or start to lead by example and have understanding, patience, tolerance and forgiveness for those that cannot do so. Remember some driveers may not be as competent as you or simply have a broken indicator.
You have hit a nerve. Indicating & parking (like we don’t have limited spaces – thoughtless & selfish). Some drivers don’t seem to realise that indicating is ‘talking’ to other road users. We need to know what their intentions are and not after they are half in the other lane. And why do they think it’s their right to cut in from a merging lane. I always wait till I am ‘allowed’ in and thank them.
I live in the ACT and my partner and I are constantly moaning about the lack of basic road etiquette and concern for the safety of other motorists shown by drivers that do not indicate or indicate too late or too briefly (eg one flash of the blinker). I would like to see police and road safety campaigns target this practice intensively for a period to increase drivers’ ‘care factor’ about indicating and to remind people that indicating is the law.
How do you expect people today to use an indicator, there are too many important things to while driving, talking/texting on the phone, smoking, eating, lipstick, hair, chatting to friend in back seat, looking at girls, window shopping, looking for a parking spot and do a U turn over a pedestrian crossing, any opportunity to turn over double lines and do anything that has nothing to do with driving safely.
Do you know of anybody picked up by the police for not indicating their intention.
Getting a licence is still too easy and far too cheap, it has nothting to do with skill.
I am convinced its on the increase,I see it on a daily basis. people have forgotten what that stick on right hand side of the steering wheel(of most cars)does and how to use it or even what it is for and i am also constantly amazed and sometimes frustrated that some people still don’t know how to use a roundabout yet!
I have found that most ( if not all) drivers do not know how to indicate in the CORRECT manner when using a Roundabout.
Yes, I agree indicating is a serious issue on the roads. My concern is not so much with people not indicating but that a lot of people seem to think indicating gives them the right toc hange lanes or merge, even if there is definitely no safe gap. I travel down Mt Ousley to Wollongong regualrly and am often frustrated and alarmed when drivers who get stuck behind a slow truck simply indicate and then pull out into the faster lane full of cars travelling at least 20km/h faster than they are. It is very dangerous and does not set a good example for the many P plate drivers using this road.
I feel very strongly about the use of indicators. I couldn’t
count the number of near accidents I’ve seen, and experienced myself, over the years.
I’m surprised that we never hear of court cases of sloppy drivers being fined seeing as there are large fines and 2 demerit points. I guess it’s because it’s difficult to prove.
I live in Canberra and the rate of indicator use has become very high in recent years, due to the numerous roundabouts. That’s one good thing about roundabouts.
How useless are those who don’t know the rules in roundabouts. The roundabout changed traffic for better – as long as everyone does what’s required… indicates. However, the rule that you need to put your right indicator on when entering the roundabout, just to go straight through and then turn on your left indicator to exit, does not seem to be at all used in practice, in multilane r’bouts at the least. See the rules from http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/ :-
Giving a right change of direction signal when entering a roundabout
(1) This rule applies to a driver entering a roundabout if the driver is to leave the roundabout more than halfway around it.
(2) The driver must give a right change of direction signal when the driver is entering the roundabout.
Giving a left change of direction signal when leaving a roundabout
(1) If practicable, a driver driving in a roundabout must give a left change of direction signal when leaving the roundabout.
Happy blinking!
I agree with what is being said. I like the part about only having qualified driving instructors not anyone who has a licensed.
I would LOVE to see a new branch of police set up to concentrate solely on the road rules such as not indicating, moving across unbroken lines etc. I am sure that once this is set up it could pay for itself in no time at all!
I am on my provisional license and have noticed how many people do NOT indicate in the 5 mins it takes for me to get to and from work everyday. I get beeped at or given the finger if I don’t give way to merging traffic because I have a green p but it’s the other driver that has not indicated to let me know they have to merge OR indicate after they merge- What is the point of that?
I think everyone should do a refresher course every two years, at the most, because it is the older drivers that are doing this.
My driving instructor lives down the road from me and I tell him all the indicating stories and he agrees that there are a ridiculous amount of people that do it- especially taxi drivers who think they own the road.
Motorcyclists too do it alot especially weaving in and out of traffic thinking they’re the king of the road. Isn’t there a rule that they have to treat their vehicle like a car? So weaving in and out of traffic should not be happening. If they want to be a respected vehicle driver they should treat their motorcycle as a car, driving in the middle of the lane.
Everyday I encounter this problem.. As a bike rider you become far more aware of it due to how vulnerable you are.
Vehicle drivers of all kinds need to look, check, indicate and only then … commence changing lanes.
At times in peak hour traffic, I don’t indicate on a motorcycle as I don’t have time because I am avoiding cars who don’t indicate or are not looking. In fact my record has been 6 lane changes in a row to avoid car drivers!
This is a petty offence similar to people driving 20kph under the speed limit which I never see enforced.
I do often see motorcycles getting booked for far lesser crimes!
Being involved in motorsport brings a different perspective to what safety is all about. It also blows the speeding kills argument right out of the water.
Regrettably, government revenue focuses on speeding and not the pathetic, senseless, needless non use of something that goes back in time to when cars had flags.
It’s as simple as this: if you can’t do something as simple as indicate, then you don’t deserve to be on the roads. Cars are designed to have the trafficator stalk at your fingertips so it’s not a complicated thing to use.
I witnessed on bloke change lanes more than a dozen times with no indication whatsoever and at 2 points and 140 bucks each time, he’d have lost his license twice over.
If I see someone in front of me failing to do something so simple, I flash the lights and use my indicators; if they’re behind me, a double light tap on the brakes (not breaks as so many illiterate people write) and indicate left and right, then waggle the finger.
Illegal? I don’t give a toss because, if it gets you, the loser driver to realise you can’t so something simple as indicate and you then do it, it’s a win.
Too often drivers believe if they indicate, it gives them the right to cut in front of you.
They don’t get it. It is required as a form of intent, not a right. When the driver lets you in, that is when it is safe to change lanes.
Really? And I thought it was the manufacturers fault for installing so many non-working indicators…
I am fired up about this blog. I really hate those fools that indicate and just think they can change lanes even though you are right beside them. AAARRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let’s have a TV campaign to educate all drivers about USING INDICATORS. It’s courtesy, it’s logical, it’s the law!! Why do so many people get away with not using their indicators??
Some of the worst offenders of not using indicators are those drivers of very expensive or 4WD vehicles – they obviously think the law doesn’t apply to them. My other pet hate is the drivers who don’t use their indicators when stopped at traffic lights until the lights change.
a lot of talk about courtesy, but really it’s the law. I was told by police officer many years ago that “long enough” was about three cycles of the indicator and only change when it was safe to move, also that you were required to indicate 30 metres before the corner. I wonder what people are being taught.
I think that some Motorists don’t understand WHY they are indicating a turn .They must surely only believe that they are following road rules,They don’t realise that other road users depend on them to indicate their intentions BEFORE they actually do turn thus avoiding possible conflict
I have been driving for almost 30 years and I noticed that drivers are getting more impatient and arrogant. The lack of consideration for other road users is evident everywhere I go. I normally keep a safe distance from the car ahead of me, but many times I see drivers zoom into the space without indicating. Some do indicate but when they are driving side by side, and as they inch forward their car cuts into the lane I’m on forcing me to swerve to avoid an accident.
When will these people learn that indicating does not give them the right to change directions and endangering other road users who have the right of way. Also the indicators MUST be clearly conveyed the intention BEFORE the move is made. When the driver signalled when alongside my car about his intention to cut in front of me, that is NOT indicating. There is no way I could have seen it.
So please have more consideration for other road users and use your common sense.
Indicating does seem to be viewed as Optional these days. People also seem to not realise that when piloting a vehicle at speed limit the driver makes his decision a considerable distance from the point of turn or stop. Many drivers seem to leave indicating until the last minute (or not at all), meaning other drivers have already made a commitment before the driver indicates his intension.
More education is required on this subject. It would be interesting to know how many accidents are caused by late or no indicating.
Indicating is just another of our road rules that now seem to be considered OPTIONAL. As if all other road users are mind readers!! This anoying and frustrating habit of not indicating or indicating so late that you may as well not have indicated at all is just lazy. A brief concentrated effort by Police across the state could have a dramatic affect on this dangerous trend. If all police rostered on at a given time were to position themselves at various roundabouts and intersections for say 30 minutes, one day a week they could issue fines for many thousands of drivers – recoup the cost of the exercise many times over and break this bad habit.
YES, YES, YES !!
I drive during the day in the Inner West of Sydney.
Wow – it isn’t only the young hoon, but the older driver (who may dangle his arm out the window), the young mother with children in the car (and not obey any of the road rules) or the young hoon (who is too engrossed in his MP3 to remember to indicate and dangles his arm out the window too). The people I see who are indicating are the older women.
I read what Michael Robertson had to say, and was astounded. We use our indicators to ensure anyone around us knows what we intend to do. Just because the examiner didn’t see anyone, didn’t mean there wasn’t anyone. I think he should have been reported. Regardless of whether we agree with the road rules, if we all follow them, then we know what to expect from others. Common courtesy, which isn’t so common, is just a bonus.
On the subject of double indicators (aka hazard lights), which are supposed to be used to indicate a hazard, such as a broken-down car, but are more commonly used to say, “I know I’m not supposed to stop/park here, but I’m going to anyway, no matter how dangerous and annoying it is to other drivers and pedestrians.”
My sister-in-law tells me that in the police force these flashing lights are known as “book me, book me” lights, for obvious reasons.
Too many think that their indicator is some sort of magic wand that protects them from collision and gives them some form of right of way. They don’t seem to realise the use of the indicator is to show the INTENT to change direction not to inform us of a manoeuvre already under way.
Judging by all the comments from the ladies I read here, it seems like most of those I encounter on the roads don’t participate in such forums…………………
As a frequent pedestrian, I’ve lost count of the number times I’ve almost been hit and subsequently abused by the driver when crossing a road thinking it was safe as there had been no indication that the car was going to turn into the road. Whether you are on foot or in a car, why do those in the right receive the abuse?
If I recorded every number plate of those who failed to indicate… I definitely would NOT have to work another 30+ years!!!
More than courtesy it’s about SAFETY, and one flash/blink does not constitute fair notice when you have already begun to move.
Just drive up the F3, if the police actually booked drivers the state budget would be fixed.
Yes, indicating is going the way of the dinosaur. I didn’t realise I was given psychic abilities when it came to determining what another driver’s intention was. Guess I was holding the door open for everyone else on that day. What I find extremely rude is when you come to red traffic lights and stop behind a car who, for all intents and purposes, is going straight ahead (no right indicator) they decide to indicate their intention to turn right once the light has turned back to green. Good luck with trying to get this one under control.
Not only do motorists not indicate clearly and sufficiently early, but they don’t do it before committing other illegal acts like U turns across Unbroken Centre lane lines, and across pedestrian crossings and at traffice lights. Especially outside schools.
Child safety is paramount to us because the future of the country depends on them being healthy and fit to support us oldies in our dotages. Current crops of parents don’t seem to care that they are putting other peopl’e children at risk every day outside the local school.
Their own children are not at risk because they have already entered the school grounds before the parents do those things which endager other children.
I would like to see local people given the power to report parents who, outside the local schools
Park too close to the corners
Park on top of Unbroken centre lines
Commit Illegal U turns
Stop in no stopping zones
Park across driveways
Double park to let their children off and so on.
Councils who responsibility this is seen to have no time for this important activity but have time to book people for parking where there is no danger to either people or vehilces nor any obstruction to traffic.
How about pursuing this with the RTA?
Also how about all those cars which now drive around with their HID lights on at night despite the rules that headlights must be “dimmed” or Dipped at night in Built UP areas.
Yes, I love the “One-Flash-Wonders” who give you one flash as they are half way into the lane.
The other thing I find interesting is how an experienced driver can read the motion of other vehicles and know what is going to happen, while an inexperienced (both sons learning 1xL and 1xP) driver can have no idea.
Because of lack of Police on the roads attitudes are, indicate when I feel like it, talk on my mobile whilst driving. If I tailgate this guy in front will move over. Driving with fog lights on, on clear nights.
Maybe courts and police could teach culprits good driving manners.
Lack of indicating shows a lack of courtesy as well as lack of driving knowledge. Why do these inconsiderate drivers wait until it is time to turn the wheel until they indicate? What is worse is when drivers indicate tat they are going to turn one way – and then DON’T!! Personally, I am very conscious of indicating and do so at the earliest possibility. I agree that there seems to be less indicating now than in the past. More cops – please.
…and I though it was only me who was concerned about this problem! Thanks for raising this issue.
I think a large part of the problem is that the RTA, police and politicians are only ever talking about speeding and drinking. Anything that is detectable by a camera or booze bus is kind of convenient, they just set the trap and watch the dollars rolling in. This fostered an attitude where some drivers think that if they don’t drink to excess, drive 50km/h in the 60 zone and don’t run a red light, they are automatically good drivers, no matter what else they do or don’t do…
For goodness sake, tell the stupid idiots who indicate that they are turning at a roundabout but go straight ahead, that they are a accident waiting to happen or worse still kill themselves or some one else.
Bring in compulsory licence testing every 2 yrs then there is no excuse not to know the road rules.
I would gladly go back every 2 yrs to be tested so I will be up to date with all the rule changes.
Better still, increase the fines payable for such offences and then we will see an increase in police taking action.
As for parents who break the rules in school zones, they should loose their licence for 3 – 6 mths.
Half the time they live within 5 – 10 mins walk from the school so they should be setting an example for healthy life style and looking after the environment
Cheers
I believe this has been brought about by the lack of Police on the roads. Attitudes are, indicate if I feel like it, talk on my mobile whilst driving, ignore stop signs, drive with driving/fog lights on a clear night or daytime. If we had enough police they could teach culprits good driving manners provide the courts follow through with the apropriate charges if fines are appealed
Indicating has become a real problem – yes, some people don’t bother to indicate at all – but the biggest problem is the new rule to indicate when leaving a round-a-bout! It is ridiculous to have to indicate when going straight through a round-a-bout, especially when there are several exits – you can see indicators on far too early, but it is actually very difficult to put the indicator on at the right time. When going straight through a round-a-bout it does not make sense to have to indicate to the left!
I thought a new license had been issued whereby it was no longer necessary to indicate, and if you did indicate it gave you right of way to change lanes without concern for other vehicles.
My friends 18 year old son recently got his P Plates and as I was helping him organise a few things he offered to drive me. All was going not too badly until we came to a major intersection where he wanted to turn right. Traffic in our lane could go either right or straight ahead. We sat in the middle of the intersection without an indicator. Given he had just bought his “new” second hand car, I asked him if the indicator was out of order as yet another car went past us blowing their horn. His response … “I know where I am going, no one else needs to know”. Can an attitude test be included in the driving test??
We are all so ready to criticise, as if we ourselves are all perfect. The fact is, there are many situations in which we need to indicate, and no matter how hard one tries to be correct and courteous, we will forget sometimes and make mistakes. I am extremely determined that I will always indicate correctly, and yet sometimes I find that I forgotten to do so, and there must be many more times I am not even aware. Sometimes I actually discover that I have used the wrong indicator eg left instead of right. It is extremely easy to do no matter how hard you concentrate. I think we should stop being critical and drive defensively. We know people will make mistakes, often unintentionally, so just be prepared and make allowances for it and don’t expect everyone to be perfect. None of us are.
Yes I too find this very frustrating, especially when people pull up in front of you with no indicators showing what their intentions are, be it turn right left or continue on. The dilema is do you overtake, wait behind till they move or realise you are there?
Yes…this is becoming more and more predominant – not so much as when turning from one street into another but most certainly when changing lanes.
Totally agree, it seems people are scared the blinkers in their cars may wear out if used.. especially 4 wheel drivers who “own the road” just because “they can” attitude. As for Wendy’s comment that she can accidently use the wrong indicator as in left instead of right – please tell me when you are on the road so I can get off….
It is extraordinary how many people fail to indicate. Even if indicating were not the law, common courtesy and consideration of the needs of other motorists would surely make you gove a signal.
We are at the stage where a police blitz is necessary.
I certainly agree that indicator use is declining and it is possibly the most annoying, unsafe and rude driving practice. However, I understand Wendy’s comments of occassionaly forgetting but we are not all mind readers or intuitive enought to second guess every other driver’s moves.
It seems to me that it is not a lost art but simply that it is not policed at all! If it is against the law then put police on the road to enforce it. In today’s electronic era surely the note of a police officer giving a first warning on less severe cases & having that record for the next time – a fine should ensue. When I started driving all of the basic rules of the road were policed heavily & you learned what to do as a result. Nowadays the police are more interested in the high end policing & ignore the basics. How many times a day do you notice people changing lanes, driving whilst talking on mobiles, driving with spotlights on, going through stoplights & signs etc illegally??
No-one ther to pull them up or ignored! All drivers should take responsability for their actions.
Venus from Canberra has hit the nail on the head. You take your life into your own hands if you dare indicate to change lanes. That’s one sure way to ensure you can’t change lanes by doing so.
Also, 99% of people don’t indicate when leaving a roundabout. It’s a rare occassion when I see anyone useing an indicator to leave a roundabout.
I couldn’t agree more. some drivers seem to care less these days and are very abusive and give the middle finger sign if you dare look like you are mad at them for not indicating right or left. There is no excuse for not indicating and they deserve to be fined very heavy. Isn’t it better to be fined than have another vehicle run into you and hurt or kill you. I see a lot of drivers change lanes without a signal,only the other day I had a driver changed from the left lane without indicating and I don’t know how I missed him. I have been driving for 55 years and always do the speed limit, not over or under if it clear.
Arrogance, couldn’t care less attitude, no attention to details and no police is the combined root cause. These types with a spacer between their ears know there are no police out there and so they can get away with it. Put that together with a speeding 4WD (ever notice how often the two go together?) and it is a crash waiting to happen.
In today’s world of driving it seems that the indicator has become an optional accessory fitted to cars, it’s the lazy drivers who don’t consider other road users. This is a product of the civil libertarians and the do-gooders of society slowly eroding everything in society, and people ask what has happened.
Indicating it would apear that it is an art if you can get one to three flashes is going to save you money on the home electricity bill, and a bigger test to see if you notice if they did indicate.
Then there is the I know where I am going, see if you can guess where they are going.
Another one just as dangerous I can see can you see me.
Lights off in the evening or early in the morning or in bad weather, just because they can see they think you can see them, colour of there car the conditions can make them almost invisible.
I am not perfect my self but if the other driver does there bit it can help me be just that bit better.
None of us are MINEREADERS!!! Some people are very lazy or downright arrogant or BOTH. Excuses should as kids in the car, mobile phone distraction etc are just not acceptable.
Experienced drivers must set exemplary behaviour and respect the rule of law for in so doing will they better protect themselves and others and present the very best example for our younger and less experienced drivers to follow.
Use of indicators or lack thereof often reflects a very casual state of mind which invariably could lead to fatalities and much material damage.
Skills of anticipating another driver’s intention want not be necessary if everyone simply followed the rules.
I cannot understand anyone indicating their intentions on the road. When I first passed my Driving Test, any indicatiion of change of lane, direction, turning etc etc, had to be indicated at a distance of no less than 100 yards ( now 100 metres ). How often have I seen drivers, of both sexes, decide to indicate when they are either halfway through a turn, lane change etc or after they have finished the manouver. It is totally unbelievable and unacceptable. Where do these people get their Liscence?, out of a Cereal Packet? When I did my Licence Test, it was conducted by the NSW Police and it was, from my observations a lot more stringent than it is today.
A lot of drivers don’t indicate a lot of the time, because a lot of drivers give a low priority to actually driving. Many drivers put on their indicators in good time at a T-junction, BUT hardly any do before turning out of a roundabout, so incoming drivers have to sit and wait in case the other vehicle is going round (in which case of course it has right of way).
Agree, late use, incorrect use and no use are a concern. At least with no use you are immediately on your guard awaiting the outcome, whereas incorrect use and late use are extremely dangerous. Roundabouts are my main concern there’s more education required both with blinkers and charging into demanding right of way.
It’s not just a lack of indicating that’s on the rise. I regularly see U-turns across double white lines, overtaking on the left on single lane roads, mobile phone use…. sadly the reality is a total decline in following basic road rules.
The behaviour which affects me most is the attitude ‘I only need to indicate if there are cars about’. NRMA members and their families do have a life outside their vehicles, and when our family is using the roads as pedestrians or cyclists this is a constant hazard. Cars will suddenly turn, pull out or pull over without warning. The message has to be ‘indicate clearly EVERY time’.
Hi,
My daughter is currently on her Learners Permit and I have become increasingly aware of the amount of people disregarding road rules. Three times in the last week I have witness people doing U-Turns over Double Unbroken lines without even indicating. A double wammy.
I have become more aware of my own practices and can only lead by example. It states that you must indicate for 5 secs before leaving the curb, which I now do diligently. Also when changing lanes I ensure there is enough gap between me and the vehicle in the other lane especially large trucks.
Roundabouts are especially a concern as no one is consistent with what they do. It becomes quite dangerous especially on small ones.
Another thing that really annoys me is that people who use their fog lights day and night in clear conditions. They must think it’s trendy even though it’s illegal.
Most definitely drivers make less use of indicators – I see it as a function of the fact that our society is much less polite than it used to be, and it seems to be that drivers don’t think it matters to let others know what you are going to do.
The other side of indicators is that some of those who do use them when changing lanes in a multi-lane road seem to think that the use of the indicators gives them automatic right to change lanes regardless of the vehicles already in that lane.
It is not just the lack of indicators that is a worry but also the weaving in and out of traffic sometimes darting from the left lane across, without the use of an indicator, 2 lanes to the outside then overtaking 1 car and darting back to the left lane. I have also had the case where I have been sitting on the legal limit of 100 on the M7 in the left lane and had a car scream past me, cut across the front of me so they can then speed of up an exit lane to leave the motorway just to save a lousy 2 seconds of time but nearly wiping me and my family out because they did not have the patience to slip in behind me and make a safe exit. Is it any wonder the death rate is up on 2008, it makes no sense.
This has been a pet gripe of mine for quite some time now. I drive daily from Sydney to Wollongong and back, so I see the whole range of dangerous and inconsiderate driving. The road rules are evidently different for the F6, because I find that motorists who indicate their intention to change lanes is the exception, not the norm. Those who cut sharply back into my lane after passing me just add insult to injury (with so much vacant road space before them, why do they do this??).
Chronic tailgating is another source of aggravation and stress. I am beginning to think the train would be a better option, in spite of the time penalty. At least it won’t put such a strain on my nervous system.
Everyone knows the rules, if you don’t indicate you are either lazy or indecisive, both are dangerous and potential accidents waiting to happen.
Another annoying misuse of indication is people who indicate they are turning right whilst their actions and intentions are to travel strait ahead through a roundabout, this slows traffic flow and causes frustration to others waiting for their turn to enter/exit the roundabout.
Also, Learner drivers should not be permitted to travel on roads on which they are not authorised to drive at the speed limit….ie. 80 in a 100-110 zone
I am on the Central Coast travelling the F3 I have encountered drivers that change lanes at well over the 110 speed limit, and had one the other night going to Sydney That went from the middle lane over to the left lane raced pass me changed back causing me to break, as the gap was only about 30m then went over to the out side lane at high speed, pass the car in frount then cut back to the middle lane, not once was there a indicator. We have a lot of round abouts in our area there is the last minute signal, or the one left on after completing the turn causing confusion to drivers coming into the round a bout
I think we all need to grow up and take a look at our own driving skills, me included. I’m both a car driver and a motorcycle rider by choice not by circumstances. It aggravates me when people don’t use their indicators when I’m on a bike cause i don’t know their intentions and it puts my life at risk. When I’m in the car i cant be 100% if I’m using my own indicators( sorry to every other vehicle i may have accidentally cut off). Its all well and good to “blame the police for lack of attendance”, their job is not to spoon feed you its to uphold the law and be a shining example in the community. sure i could say they are just revenue raisers especially catching speeders in unmarked police cars. Lets face it most of us have forgotten the basic rule of keep left unless overtaking L plate driving instructors included. before we tell people to use an indicator how about we all show some courtesy to everyone on the road and keep the hell left…the road is there to share afterall
Lack of indication by drivers is rife and it’s right through the spectrum of drivers from p platers to mature drivers, male or female. The police never seem to target this issue, as evidenced by the large signs that state what the police are targeting during a set period of time. The police seem to only target speeding, drink driving or selt belts mostly. The police should also be targetting lack of indicators as well. They would certainly bolster State revenues. The demerit points for lack of use of indicators should be lifted from 2 to 3 as well. Speeding to me is not that much of an issue. Just like there has been public education for roundabouts (another chest nut), more education is required on the use of indicators.
I drive a heavy vehicle for a living and it is one of the most frustrating things. It seems that most drivers think if they are turning left at a roundabout they don’t have to indicate. Then there are the people with the weird idea that you have to indicate right to enter a roundabout, doesn’t matter which direction they are going, they enter with the right indicator and then half way through they indicate left to exit. How confusing and when you start to pull out and then have to slam the brakes on because they are not turning right but going straight ahead. When a heavy vehicle is approaching an intersection they have to slow more than a car but when you stop for no reason because some useless idiot can’t be bothered to move the small stick next to the steering wheel. A small effort to make proper use of your indicators can make a big difference to other people. And don’t worry it is not just cars, it is all drivers heavies and light, most bike riders use them but the scooter rider and the people who are riding a small bike because of fuel costs are very scary. After 30 years of driving I feel there should be a driving test for all every 5 years.
I think the newer style of front amber blinking indicator lights that appear to be just amber coloured globes behind the clear parking light lense are almost invisible during full daylight, especially if the sun is shining on them.
How could they be acceptable to the authorities?
The operative word is BEFORE turning. NOT optional
Hi I totally agree that indicators should be used in every situation I think the its just to much trouble for some people or their just to lazy or inconsiderate . Also these idiots that drive with their foglights on they should have them smashed or removed from their cars plus a big fine I have even seen cars in broad daylight with their lights on hi beam plus their fog lights on as well in bright sunny conditions what are they trying to prove other than blind other drivers.
As a professional tow truck driver for the 12 years in sydney averaging 80 thousand k’s a year. I have seen it all ,From fatal accidents inculding motorbike riders and all ages in cars right down to kids strapped in baby seats, Yes the lack of indicating is a problem but i find more annoying the people who feel the ” keep left unless overtaking” rule doesn’t apply to them, Driving a semi trailer for the last 5 years i have only had 3 accidents from people day dreaming and failing to see i am taking up 2 or 3 lanes to turn left or right for a tight corner, Not for the fun of it but to simply turn a corner with more than enough notice, or this afternoons episode in castle hill where a woman thougth she would tuck herself in between my truck and the car in front at a merge lane stopped with traffic,Car drivers in general seem to think they are 100 % visible to a truck driver, Especially when they are right next to the prime mover of the truck, I consider myself a responsible driver giving courtesy as i should, But there is a constant lack of respect 99 % of drivers as a whole. I urge anyone to take a day out in a semi trailer to see how a day goes.
I agree with everything everyone here is saying – feels good to vent, doesn’t it, people? But I have to confess my personal principle. You all know this scenario! When I am in the main lane, and there is a lane that eventually ends and cars queue in it to merge into my lane, there are ALWAYS drivers who speed up past everyone, then cut in ahead… Yes, they are always the kind of people who TRULY BELIEVE that they are better than the rest of us AND they NEVER indicate. So, my principle is – and I apply it to anyone trying to merge – if you are not indicating, I will not let you in. I would rather you hit me and then I take you to court. It will be your fault. If we all took a stand against people like that – they would have to adapt their thinking and behaviour.
I can confess to having to speed ahead of everyone once, when I was in a hurry for a medical emergency – my mum was taken to the hospital and I had to follow. But I ALWAYS indicate, even in the middle of the night, when seemingly there is no need and nobody is relying on my actions. Indicating is a habit, and so I do it. It’s not a matter of choice – sometimes i feel like it and sometimes not… You establish your driving habits when you learn to drive. I suspect a lot depends on who teaches you to drive and who takes your score at the test. Maybe it’s easier for people to pass these days?
The lack of indicating reflects the general lack of care that people take when driving (and parking). To many people driving is only about getting from A-B so once they have done enough to pass a trivial test they see no reason to put effort into honing their skill and road craft. There needs to be some incentive (beyond pride which sufices for some of us) to improving skills. However our government has a pathetic single focus agenda to road saftey with the only skill required being to keep your speed below the posted limit. This has lead to police (that could enforce all the rules) being replaced by cameras that catch only 1 type of offence (but efficiently turn it into revenue).
If we want to fix it, we need both the stick (more real police on the roads) and a carrot (some incentive to enhancing driving skills beyond what is needed to get off Ls)
It”s a reflection of the ‘me’ generation – the younger generation does not understand that there is anyone else to worry about, so why would they bother indicating?
The curious thing I have noticed is people not indicating when they are about to perform an illegal manoevre – just when an indication might help to save them from a collision.
Indicating seems to be a something you can choose do do – if you feel like it. Let alone being illegal not to indicate, it is just not being respectful or courteous to other drivers on the road – maybe an indication of a society that is slowly disintergrating. Not only do people not indicate – they just don’t know the rules of indicating on a roundabout. We need some sort of education in the media regarding correct use of roundabouts.
Yes, it is a widespread problem that occurs in two main forms: drivers either don’t indicate, or indicate after they’ve started to move or change direction. Both are dangerous and increasingly common. I consider the most dangerous to be drivers that pull out from the verge into traffic without indicating, as they are necessarily going more slowly than the traffic and are very hard to see. I particularly pity cyclists who are often in lanes running between parked cars and traffic.
I don’t think that failing to indicate a turn has become much worse over the past few years – except 4WDs failing to indicate when there is only pedestrian traffic.
What I do find irritating is when people, even police drivers, continue indicating when they are in a marked , even barrier protected, left or right turn only lane(s). In these circumstances they are (say when turning right) indicating a U turn when they are intending to stay in the lane. If there are two lanes turning right, you have a line of vehicles indicating U turns, and another line indicating a lane change, when 95% are just intending to continue in their chosen lane. The 5% who want to U turn or change lanes have no way of singling their intentions.
I get frustrated following many drivers in this country. There is a tendency, as well as not using indicators at all, to people using them late. Invariably, the brake lights go on first and then the indicator a very late second; often as they ommence the turn.
I was taught to indicate my intention well before putting it into practice, but then I am an older driver and learned the ‘art’ of driving in England; there are very few things better in the UK than in Aus, but driving is (still) one of them. An Friend who has just visited UK for the first time, remarked about ‘how polite the drivers are on their busy roads’.
We really should start enforcing the rules, maybe an ad campain would help…. ?
Yes it is a real problem. Along with tailgating, parking facing traffic (great when they have to cross your path to get back on the right side of the road when leaving) and the list goes on….
The common thread?
- No speed camera will ever pick you up for it.
- No police officer, when they can be found enforces it (some break it themselves).
- Enforcing it would set a precedent and expectation from the public that Police would be on our roads enforcing all road laws. That is a net cost and not a net profit for the government (which leads to my next point).
- No real money to be made from it, so it doesn’t get the “safety” tag or any dollars or interest in enforcing it. Speed enforcement is far more profitable and easier to manipulate.
- Finally Police actually enforcing road laws would actually be dangerous for them. Motorists after years of being conditioned that you can do whatever you like on the roads, so long as you don’t speed, would often not take kindly to being actually held accountable. I would expect a high incidence of abuse and violence towards Police officers, which again raises that whole “net cost” problem, as the Police increase officers on the road to ensure their fellow officers safety.
Safety has a price and our state government, doesn’t have any desire to pay it.
Using indicators have gone the same way as using STOP signs. Nobody gives a damn anymore!
Yes, generally less motorists are obeying the ‘indicating’ rules, whether it be through a lack of understanding, lack of common courtesy, or whatever? One thing I have personally noticed is that in a number cases (not all) the drivers of the vehicles in question have been busy doing other things, like on the mobile either talking or even texting, playing with a GPS, fumbling around with something in the centre console, or just not paying attention to where they are actually going, ie unsure of where they are or going? We obviously only have two hands, and assuming one of them is on the steering wheel (call me cynical) and the other holding a phone or pushing buttons on a GPS or radio (whatever), then most other things are going to miss out, one of them being the indicator! Another trend that I’ve noticed is that a fair number of the culprits are driving expensive vehicles. I’ve oftern observed drivers of BMWs, Mercs etc changing lanes and not indicating and then saying to myself “Well I suppose they feel they’re above having to indicate because they’re driving a BMW” or whatever!
Drivers certainly need to be reminded of this and maybe RTA signage that Police are targeting Indicator Failure (and the penalties mentioned) might help. My driver/motor cyclist licence is now 41 years old and I seem to have learnt many years ago that it is potentially foolish not to anticipate that every other road user is about to make a mistake or ignore the rules or is lazy or distracted. As a motor cyclist I rely heavily on indicating directional change intention to every other road user, whether I am riding or driving. My reliance on every other road user is that they will not indicate; that way I am pleasantly gratified when they do. Face it, the smarter road users know we are constantly on the lookout for that mistake that could unexpectantly change our circumstance by any degree from minor annoyance to complete devastation. Let us not get angry, let us just get smarter. The “crystal ball” comment is a cop-out. The “wake up” exclamation is tantamount to road rage. Let Police target poor indicator usage. Let us just do our best as road users, having good clear thought processes which include courtesy and road rule compliance, and get safely and peacefully to our intended destination. Cheers.
It is incredible the number of drivers who believe blinkers are fitted to a vehicle as an optional extra, or fashion accessory not to be used for the purpose they are intended. The use of blinkers at roundabouts is practically non existent, and if they are used at all the vast majority are used only after the vehicle has exited the roundabout. Forget revenue earning by the Police Highway Patrol on the open road, sit on any roundabout, or merging lane and the coffers will be full in no time flat.
Now hang on minute…give these people a fair go! Have you ever tried to use your trafficator, turn the steering wheel, turn up the volume of the boombox – AND hold your mobile phone all at the same time??? Could it just be that many of us considerate drivers just do not have the same multi-tasking skills as all these other loons (apology – focused drivers).
Jesting aside – In general, there is an rapidly increasing self-centred attituded amongst drivers of all ages…I’m on the road…I’m all that is important!!! I happpen live in a rural town (3000 citizens) and it not just the youngies, but the oldies and the middlies and the truckies and the P-Platers – an increasing decline in simple courtesy and respect for all other road users…it is not just trafficators.
Simple application of the rules means safer travelling for all. Cars and human bodies are not indestructible… and yes…accidents don’t always happen to ‘other people’. It is a case of absolute focus at all times. As good a driver as I may be, I am always on the lookout for the other driver who is not!
Putting on a blinker should not be an indication of an intention but an indication of a willingness. The road rules clearly state that a vehicle cannot change a course of direction unless it is safe to do so. Too many drivers change direction with or without the use of suitable indication, and to hell with those behind or beside. The road rules also clearly state that if a vehicle wants to cross from one marked lane into another, then it must give way to vehicles already in that lane ( including merging ). In a 17km drive home yesterday afternoon I had to take evasive action 4 times because of these idiots.
When are we going to get more marked and unmarked police cars on our roads to get these dipsticks off ?? Maybe only then we’ll end up with safer roads and a lower crash/injury/death toll.
Goerge Zamros – perhaps i didn’t explain clearly. What the examiner is finding out is if the driver is aware of his/her surroundings and other road users. If you were on the freeway at night with no other traffic for miles and miles would you still indicate? We are being taught to drive like automated fools rather than being aware of other road users – pedestrians, bikes, buses cars etc. Little wonder then that for some drivers they either give up totally on indicating or indicate unwisely as detailed in all the previous examples.
That’s why mobile phones etc are banned – you are unable to concentrate on the road and other drivers.
However, if the road rules state you must always use indicators then that’s what should happen and therein lies the problem
I feel the RTA must shoulder a lot of the responsiblity as they set the standards required and also make driving more difficult than necessary. Speed signs are not well displayed and often change over short distances, school zones are not always well signed, clearway times are not consistent – some are 3.30 whilst others are 3.00 which adds to the confusion on our roads. very few people inc police seem to understand the roundabout rules both for indicators as well as giving way
I was beginning to think that blinkers in vehicles were becoming an optional extra when the car was purchased and that no one could afford them !
The art of using the indicator “after” a driver has decided that they can just squeeze into the safe stopping distance between my car and the one in front, must be one of the rules you failed to mention.
Tsk, Tsk. Doesn’t everyone know that each car has a limited number of blinks and they can’t be wasted on whimsical things like telling someone behind what my intentions are. Besides, I might want to change mind and that would confuse them. They’re not very bright, you know!
A lot of drivers seem to have their minds in neutral, not planning ahead. A good example of this is when a car pulls up at traffic lights behind a truck, then decides to move to the vacant lane beside them when they have almost stopped.
To use indicators properly means that you have to think ahead and plan your move – not change lanes or turn a corner on an impulse.
I agree with all the above comments regarding the use,or lack of use of indicators.I also have a couple of pet peeves,which are ..the use of so-called auxilary headlights that are ,under design laws,supposed to be extinguished when the main headlights are turned on,because legally,you can only have 2 headlights on,on low beam and cars encounted of a night-time with only one working headlight.The Central Coast of NSW must be the worse area in NSW for this common sight.I travel 25 km on a wednesday night and in that space of time I will see no less than 12-20 cars with only one functional headlight and they are usually on a “p” plated car.Is it too much effort to occassionally walk around your car to see if the lights work?? and also include your indicator lights too,as I’m positive the manufactures only put them there to fill up holes in the bodywork of the cars
Keith
These morons have the misguided impression that activating an indicator will flatten their battery!!! The ‘non use’ of indicators is a measure of their IQ and their inability to think – in fact ‘thinking’ might be a ‘new experience’ for them.
On the M4 every day you find it is mostly the rude, arrogant drivers doing 130-140 in peak hour and cutting people off every time they change lanes who do not indicate. It is only a matter of time before they clip the front of someone’s car and kill them.
On the flipside, you get the drivers who are just as bad who merge onto the motorway and think that because they have their indicator on they can move straight into the second or third lane at 80-90km/h in front of traffic doing 110, or if they are doing 110, change lanes into another car’s braking space. Listen up knuckleheads – that gap between me and the car in front is so I don’t hit them if they slam on the brakes, not for you to dive into.
The amount of times I have to slam on my brakes because someone decides to change lanes at the last minute without indicating, isn’t funny. The ABS brakes in my car, sure have been getting a full workout from the day I bought it. It’s ridiculous, because I have been to the hospital twice in the last 2 months because I had to brake that hard that the seat belt slammed into my high pregnant belly. I guess it’s good to know that the seat belts still work though
But yes, I think more people should be pulled over for not indicating, rather than for RBT’s. It will surely bring in more cash for the government. I suggest the police put an unmarked car at one of the roundabouts here on the Pacific Highway 
I travel a lot with work and have noticed that some drivers expect you to be a mind reader as to where they are going. Also I noticed drivers are only indicating once before they change lanes, forcing other users to break quickly to avoid a accident.
I am amazed at how many new and expensive cars are able to pass registration as they don’t appear to have working indicators. To all the other inconsiderate morons who think that 1, 1/2 or 2 flashes of their indicators are sufficient before, during or after they move; think again. It is dangerous & illegal. I check with all mirrors and also moving my head, to ensure it is safe to change lanes. I then indicate 5 times before moving, to ensure my safety and that of other motorists.
When I was a qualified driving instructor, it was imperative for all learners to give plenty of indication before any change of direction manoeuvres. If my pupils didn’t use the indicators correctly and adequately they would fail their test. Sorry, come back when you know how to indicate properly.
I personally feel the lack of proper indication has escalated enormously over recent years. This may be partially due to parents (who don’t know how to use indicators) are passing their failure onto their kids.
Most drivers have no road courtesy for other drivers & most certainly have no idea how to use indicators correctly. The number of drivers who indicate sufficiently prior to moving, & leave their indicator on until the move has been completed is miniscule. I would be lucky to see one per day, & I am on the road almost every day.
Indicators are not for someone else, they are for all to use
Has the art of using blinkers been lost? definitely, unfortunately so has many road rules, u turns over double lines and traffic lights is rife, many young drivers don’t seem aware of these rules and professional drivers such as taxi drivers are the worst offenders, they think they own the road and many do not show courtesy to others at all!
I definately agree that the more expensive the vehicle(not just cars) the less likely the driver to indicate. Maybe as previously mentioned blinkers are an optional extra and they have run out of money. Indicaters, mobile phones, smoking while driving are just a few of the matters that need to be targetted. They would probably bring in more revenue that the drinkers and speeding if they were policed severely. It is so easy to be caught in a speed zone on country roads and nnot know anything about it. I strongly urge the NRMA to lobby this point. But then if we win the lottery we can buy a Mack truck.
Excellent that NRMA is pursuing this cause. I do a lot of Sydney metro motorway driving and find the ever increasing poor use of indicators annoying and dangerous leading to a number of accidents. Recommend a series of Police Highway Patrol blitz, more so using Police motorcycles in the coming summer months daylight hours to curb this non compliance
I would like to have one of those special licenses
TYPE A
Changes lanes regularly and never uses and indicator
TYPE B
Oh I have just changed a lane I better now give a signal
and those people that signal now with their hand!! Oh now it is not a signal they are just ashing their cigarette.
I read Michael Robertson and George Zamros’s comments with interest. Like Michael, I came here from the UK a while back, and found there to be an almost slavish adherence to using indicators. I grant you that there are situations where you may not be able to tell who would be assisted by your use of an indicator, due to the surrounding environment, but I fully agree with Michael’s comments about lanes where you can ONLY turn left or right.
I don’t deny that there are other occasions where indicator use is abandoned, which cannot be condoned, or where an indicator is not cancelled, which can be downright dangerous (I was nearly hit last week on a roundabout, by a driver indicating to take the first exit but actually going straight through; his speed and direction had seemed to confirm his intentions). My consideration is always: if I indicate now, the traffic behind me can have more faith that I will continue to indicate my intentions; the traffic and pedestrians ahead of me (hidden or visible, moving or stationary), know whether or not they can make a move. Other situations such as indicating just because the road bends (yes, I’ve seen it more than once), or when you’re in a stream of traffic and have no option but to make a right or left turn, are pretty pointless.
Michael’s “automated fools” comment is right on the money, for me. There’s a world of difference between noticing the traffic around you & indicating accordingly, and just indicating without thought; the latter can (and does) lead to drivers indicating and moving (though not necessarily in that order), without checking to see whether a move is safe. Sadly, the maxim “assume every other driver is an idiot” is still the safest approach.
The most frustrating and annoying aspect of the failure of drivers to properly use indicators is when they are stopped at traffic lights in the right hand lane of 2 lanes without any indicator, and then decide to turn right when the light turns to green – often still without giving any indicator. Motorists behind a turning vehicle which is not displaying an indicator endeavour to pull or push into the left lane to with potential danger. I have noted that the breach also increases or creates road rage by the following frustrated drivers.
I believe this breach of the traffic rules is far more serious and important than say, someone smoking in a car, or using a mobile phone and that there should be increased publicity by the police of enforcement of this rule and that offenders will be targeted as a safety matter.
A lot of the comments here have focussed on the danger drivers who don’t indicate pose to other road users. Maybe there is a need to appeal to their selfishness and point out that they are not only putting others at risk but also themselves. It is only commonsense when driving a potential killing machine that you give other drivers every chance to know what you are about to do. But as they say, commonsense isn’t always that common.
I find personally that roundabouts seem to be the biggest worry, as many have already said ” there needs to be more info out there”, maybe TV when the footy is on during some of the adds, there certainly would be plenty of viewers. I know that there are some of you out there saying “no” not during the footy, don’t get me wrong ’cause i love footy too, but, really that would be a perfect time as i have never ending aurgements about roundabouts and the use of indicators. Lets all hope that the message gets out there sooner rather than later, before there are more deaths & roadrage.
Many drivers only indicate if they decide that another road user will benefit from their signal. Unfortunately pedestrians and cyclists apparently don’t count as road users meaning they are made to wait for the approaching car to pass only to see it turn before reaching them. Working out if there is another motorist around before deciding to indicate saps the concentration. Indicating should be an automatic response, leaving the brain free to concentrate on driving.
When was the last time you checked that your indicators (and brake lights) were actually working? Checking just before the rego test is due isn’t a good policy.
i live on the central coast of NSW. more specifically terrigal. my job is a pizza delivery guy for the local dominos, it seems to me that the central coast is one of the worst areas for people who do not indicate, most nights im on the road about 20 times, deliveries, to and from work, dropping co workers home, so on and so forth. id say that around 70% of the drivers i see, fail to indicate properly, if at all. i mean fair point that some drivers may not know about the indicate off a roundabout rule, but there is no excuse for failing to indicate when changing lanes, turning and other instances where indication is required. i have even witnessed member of the NSW police force not indicating, and in one instance not indicating, then about 2 km down the road pulling someone over for not indicating, i know for a fact that thats what he was pulled over for, because he is one of my best mates.
the fact remains that people failing to indicate properly is downright dangerous, and to tell you the truth, im getting bloody sick of being cut off by people who have decided that the indicator lever is just too far away so they wont bother.
This seems to becoming endemic – at least in west Greater Sydney. The most common “culprits” seem to be the drivers of SUV’s (Urban Assault Vehicles in my language), Merc and BMW drivers – the more expensive the car the less likely the driver is going to signal. I won’t even mention the drivers of the notorious “white vans”.
I do not understand why police do not book drivers who do not indicate. With the amount of traffic on the road, especially in Sydney, not indicating is not only lazy but can result in accidents and injuries. This would be my biggest gripe – if people indicate, other drivers are advised of their intentions. This can often result in a quick courtesy ‘toot’ to let them know how close they are to you as quite often these same lazy drivers do not pay enough attention to the road and are not aware of who and what is where and go to change lanes when there is already a car beside them in that lane.
Most annoying is when people do not indicate when entering a roundabout.
Many people put the indicator on when they have already entered the roundabout. My understanding is that you should indicate your intention to enter a roundabout at the same distance you would if you were making a turn into a street without a roundabout.
Not indicating is either pure laziness, being inconsiderate, or both. Indicating one way and going another is ignorance or stupidity. What about people who are going straight ahead at a roundabout yet indicate right when they enter it? This is very annoying at a large roundabout when waiting to enter it. I am waiting for the car to continue past my entrance before turning, yet they exit straight ahead before reaching my entrance – meanwhile I am holding up traffic!
It seems that the more expensive cars BMW/Mercs don’t have working indicators, I think they all need to be checked by an auto electrician to see if they work or not. There is also some driver’s that think you only need to flash the indicator once whilst changing lanes, I’m sure it would take more effort and concentration to flash the indicator once then to indicate normally. As Tracey says above the Police need to book drivers but unfortunately they are too busy to worry about someone not indicating especially when exciting roundabouts. The problem will only get worse because the Police do not follow through and book drivers and the government is not interested.
If the police just fined everyone for not indicating and tailgating, we could raise enough to fix our roads and the health system!
The lack of indicators appears to vary from month to month. Aug 09 I saw many instances, mainly lane changing and sometimes it is expensive cars, other times an old ute
It’s amazing that even among people who pretty much all agree on the basic problem, there can be such a wide variety of interpretations and opinions. Some even don’t know or don’t seem to understand the traffic rules or maybe they think they can do better then obeying them.
This highlights the need to have a common set of rules and to require ALL road users to follow those rules. SENSIBLE enforcing sould also be part of it.
One example is people who think that as long as it’s late at night with no other road users around, they are exempted from the rules, such as compulsory indicating since they are doing the sensible thing. Wrong! In many cases the accident is not with the vehicle or pedestrian you see, but with the one you don’t. Sure, 999 cases you get away with it, but it’s that 1000th or 10000th case that can result in an accident.
Then, somebody was complaining about buses indicating when they are not changing lanes. Yes, I’ve seen this behaviour just today but guess what, it was done for a good reason! The bus stopped in the left lane for passengers and (as it must) it was indicating it’s intention to pull off from the curb afterwards. I wanted to change in the left lane and I was mighty pleased that I new the bus driver’s intentions.
Further, people should not indicate if they are in a marked turning lane?? They should indicate in a right turning lane only if they are doing a U-turn in the intersection? Where did that come from? This defies common sense and a few traffic rules!
Having said that, and getting back to indicating, I have to confess to a “marginal” behaviour myself, of indicating late. I do this reluctantly and against my own principles. I’ve been driving a lot in Sydney peak hour (commuting), and there are places where if you want to arrive at your destination, you must change lanes and sometimes you have a very small window of opportunity to do so before you end up (stay) in the wrong lane. If I indicate, and politely wait for a gap, 4 times out of 5 drivers close up the gap. If I indicate and at the same time, slowly but surely move towards the edge of my lane, almost everybody will leave a gap for me to move in. Guilty as charged? Maybe, but it allows me to actually reach my destination after an hours drive and not end up in Wollongong.
I agree with those who suggested people should retake the road rules exame every few years. I’ve done this a while ago when I extended my licence categories and it was pretty simple. The one thing that I don’t fully understand is that you can make some mistakes and still pass the exam. Near enough is good enough?? It really doesn’t require a rocket scientist the pass the exam with full marks. Which is the rule that is optional to know about? Stopping at the stop sign? Indicating??!
I started noticing this ‘phenomena’ of ‘not indicating’ at least 5 years ago. I was on my annual drive from Melbourne to Sydney and was very disappointed to see many cars hurtling along at 100km+ changing lanes without indicating. At such high speeds it’s even more important to indicate your intention to change lanes. As the problem of ‘no indicating’ now happens every day in ‘regular’ traffic I was beginning to think I was the only person who cared to use the indicator. It’s taken too long for the ‘media’ to highlight this issue. I also find it a hazard as a pedestrian: you can step out to cross a side road or roundabout entrance only to find a ‘non indicating’ car bearing down on you.
What really annoys me is when a vehicle is parked at the road side and there is a line of traffic flowing. This twit then turns his indicator on as if to say i’m now going to jump in front simply because I have the indicator on. This is like saying “well I’m indicating for you to let me in”. I wait until it is safe to enter, why baulk the drivers behind thinking you are going to press the issue of junping in front of them. Don’t indicate when parked for an entry!!!
Tracey 4:15pm.
Police don’t book any one these days unless it is the result of a camera for speeding. Its all just too hard for them. Lets face it, each one of us probably witness a hundred drivers using their mobiles while driving each day! How is it that the police don’t see this too?
I believe that all local newspapers should ask their local area command for the weeks statistics of traffic offences. I bet there is buggar all, except for speeding.
After 40 years of driving I find that the art of putting your arm out the window to indicate your direction of turn maybe should be bought back in! I see more arms out of windows than I do indicators telling me where the driver is going. It frustrates me when drivers do not indicate either right or left and my other gripe is drivers not using round-a-bouts appropriately. Hey! Folks! How about telling me where you are going off the round-a-bout!
While I appreciate correct/appropiate use of indicators, I find it irritating when the driver of a vehicle fails to cancel the indicator on roundabouts, often leaving the indicator on way past the intended point of exit.
Of course, unlike older vehicles fitted with amber lens, many new vehicles have indicators with clear lens and amber bulbs or LED illumination which are all but impossible to see if facing into direct sunshine. A victory of style over function.
I watched four cars ahead of me pulling out of the carpark of the Marrickville Metro onto the congested street. Not one of them indicated left or right, adding to the confusion of vehicles there trying to negotiate this flow.
The problem comes down to policing.
If a law is not policed the motorists decline to follow law.
In Sutherland, NSW, heading south on East Parade on the western side of the Sutherland rail station there is a left-bearing road that peels off a straight-ahead road. Motorists taking the left-bearing road to cross over the rail bridge seldom indicate turning left, or do so after having turned the steering wheel.
As a pedestrian, I walk straight into the road to cross this left-bearing road when no left indication is given. When a motorist gets upset at my behaviour, I stop in front of their vehicle and write down their registration number and a description of the vehicle as well as a description of the driver. I take down the description of the driver because the Sutherland police have asked for this information when I have complained of other illegal behaviour. When the driver gets upset or tries to run me down, I remind them of the law – and then I get, “Are you a policeman or a judge?” “No, I am upholding my rights as a pedestrian in the face of your illegal behaviour.”
Hi although I agree that indicating is a lost art as is drivers knowing what to do at a roundabout I think NRMA and/or the government should launch a TV campaign the reinforces and educates drivers on both especially in regard to general courtesy. Living in Sydney we are required to merge often as the roads are not wide enough, the courtesy of letting at least one car in should be reinforced as well as indicating to be let in and a friendly wave as a thank you. A positive reinforcement ad would go a long way to reducating all of our drivers.
Not using blinkers is the tip of the ice-berg when it comes to road use attitudes. I get frustrated when I hear people talk about “not enough education” and “courtesy”. The fact is, drivers are more educated today than ever before. Education does not equate to learning, and assuming that young or any driver will continue to obey the laws after they are licensed is niave. What about keeping left unless overtaking? What about turning into the lane you turn out of? The list goes on and on. The RTA should run some adds on tele and elsewhere on specific rules which are being ignored. BP ran some a few years ago in conjunction with the trucking industry which were very well done. Many drivers just plain don’t care any more because they have become immune to doing what’s right.
I get so angry at the number of people to-day who do not indicate or sudenly put their brakes on to make a turn & then put on their blinkers – too late to let people behind or in front etc know they are making a turn. It is most dangerous also. I followed a guy in a ute a few days ago & he made a left turn & 2 right hand turns in front of me without using his blikers once. This happens on numerous occassions everyday on the roads. Like how difficult is it to flick a blinker!!!!! When I started driving we had to use our arms (rain, hail or shine) to indicate our intentions and everyone did it. People are getting so lazy & inconsiderate towards other drivers on the roads. I would like to see more of them pulled over & fined & then perhaps they may do the right thing.
Living and driving in Sydney, and with particular regard to lane changing, I’d reckon perhaps as high as 50% of lane changes are made without indicating. Flicking on the blinker is for me, an automatic process. I don’t need to think about it, it just happens. It makes me worried that other divers who don’t indicate must either NEVER indicate as they don’t automatically hit the blinker when changing lanes, or they consciously don’t indicate, which is almost if not worse. Either way it’s inconsiderate behaviour to other road users.
The bad habit of not indicating is getting worse. When using roundabouts and with changinging lanes, especially “P” platers( one could ask are they being taught correct signalling and if so how do they pass the test), something needs to be done as this bad habit is a cause of road rage. It is annoying ,to say the least, when I am waiting for traffic at an intersection in Orange and the car approaching from the right, does not indicate particularly a left turn. Orange is really bad for people not signalling.
I am a retired driving instructor. When I was teaching I always taught that you must signal your intention (to change lanes, pull out from the kerb etc.) and you must give at least 5 seconds warning. As a rule of thumb use at least 5 flashes before you commence your move.
Failing to indicate is illegal and dangerous. Late indicating (less than 5 seconds warning) is equally illegal and dangerous.
I very rarely see a driver giving 5 seconds warning.
So I have encountered the problem for the entire 41 years that I have been driving but I’m not sure that it is ‘becoming more of an issue’. I think it has always been a significant issue.
I agree with Paul N that this isn’t a new thing. I see one of the main problems with driving being that we get our license at a young age and then don’t have to justify our ability to drive again until we’re senior citizens.
I’d like to see it be compulsory for all drivers to have to resit a practical test every 10 years when their license is renewed. And if they failed the test then they’d have a provisional license until they could pass the test.
Indicating and other issues driver laziness issues would be reduced once drivers realised that their bad habits could mean they’d be back on P plates.
Geoff Piddington’s comments (4 Sep) re inability to identify the intentions of late model vehicles with clear lens type indicators when facing direct sunlight is valid. I recently had an accident on a roundabout, the attending police initially did not consider my statement valid until I pointed to oncoming traffic – the indicators on these approaching vehicles could only seen as the vehicles turned away from direct sunlight. Moral of the story, do not place your faith in indicators.
I suspect that, since the demise of ACT vehicle inspections, many drivers indicate but the lights don’t work. So many at night have no rear lights or a combination, often just reverse lights showing (wow!).
As confusing are those who enter a roundabout with a left indicator on, then hit the right indicator and finally back to the left. I wonder if they indicate at every curve in the road.
I haven’t found the lack of indication a huge problem, although it does happen. What really confuses me is the crazy rule about indication at roundabouts. I have always indicated to go right or left, but see no necessity when I am going straight ahead. If I were to put a left indicator on to go straight ahead, them surely I am giving the wrong information to the car behind me. It certainly confuses me when I am behind someone that does, especially if there are 2 lanes and they dont move over. Whats more, I don’t seem to be the only one who sees it that way.
My pet peeve is people turning right at a roundabout and leaving the indicator on as they exit. They’re indicating right and turning left as they leave the roundabout. You’re sitting there waiting to enter the roundabout, the driver in the roundabout is indicating right (indicating that he is continuing around the roundabout), so you wait – then he exits !
Incidentally – I was taught (many years ago) to indicate a turn before I braked for it. It’s a good rule to give people warning of what you are about to do.
I usually try and give drivers who fail to indicate or indicate late the benefit of the doubt because we all have moments where we are distracted/confused/unsure whilst driving and fail to indicate in the correct manner. Having said that, I do feel that not indicating at all is becoming a problem on our roads and is becoming more prevalent. Other drivers not indicating causes a lot of frustration and often places vehicles in very dangerous situations. I often think that the drivers blinkers could not possibly be working when you see people overtaking, moving off the road, turning across traffic etc without any use of indicators. Can people really be stupid, lazy or arrogant enough to not realize the dangerous situations they are creating.
I find that failure to use indicators is a combination of laziness and arrogance for some. Living in the western suburbs of Sydney, I have come across drivers who purposely do not indicate (and have the nerve to smirk as they go by you as if to say ‘Haha, thought I was turning didn’t you, I’m so skilled I can swerve by anthing on the road!). Drivers need re-educating. Then you have the opposite – the drivers who just do not have any freakin idea! Two days ago I was driving home from a shopping centre (it’s approx 8kms from home) behind a ‘man’ who had his hazards on. I thought, when he changes lanes (which he did) he’ll have to signal and notice the hazards are on………bzzzzzzrt! Wrong!
There is definatelly a problem with indicating.
I think there is some confusion about when and why for some people.
I think every driver should be given an update of the new driving rules at the time they renew their licence. That way someone who got their licence 50 or even 10 years ago will know the new rules.
There is that group people that indicates after they have changed direction.
There are also people who don’t indicate at all due to:
laziness,
not caring,
not concentrating/last minute decision,
or maybe because of the actions of other drivers;
e.g. sometimes when I indicate to change lanes or merge into traffic, other drivers speed up to close the gap so you can’t get in ‘front of them’.
I guess some motorists are starting to think, “if you can’t beat them, join them”! or “Why should I be courtious if I’m treated otherwise”.
Marina
The indicating rule in small roundabouts is certainly a problem. I think it definatelly causes accidents. Many people indicate left then right to go ahead which confuses the other drivers.
It also distracts the driver as he/she has to do a number of actions in a very short space.
Its great for large roundabouts of course.
With the large number of small roundabouts we have on our suburban streets now, most drivers are simply ignoring the requirement to indicate, especially when going “straight on”.
The RTA rules say the following:
“When exiting a roundabout, whether you are turning left, right or even going straight ahead, you must always indicate a left turn just before you exit, unless it is not practical to do so.”
Most people just decide it’s not practical to do so, but this is not a very satisfactory situation given you can be given a horrendous fine for not indicating!
Living in Canberra with a large number of roundabouts, I am staggered that so many drivers do not know how to negotiate them using indicators. Many seem to believe that whenever they deviate from a straight line they need to indicate, so when they enter the roundabout they indicate left (incorrect), then when they begin to curve right (incorrect) and then again (maybe) when they exit (correct at last!). This causes major confusion to other drivers (especially cyclists, who don’t know what is happening). I’m not sure what can be done about this, as the problem is inside people’s heads.
I also find this frustrating. In many case the driver will commence the manouvre or enter a Left/right turn only lane and then indicate. The idea of indicating is inform others of your intentions BEFORE you start the manouvre not during it as if to confirm to others that is really what you intended to do and is not a mistake!
Indicators are just another skill that many owners of a drivers licence (I’ve observed many of them and they aren’t drivers!) do not possess. I believe attitude is the biggest issue, once individuals accept that driving is a privilege and not a right then they will be compelled to do their utmost when they’re on the road. Many would argue that indicators are frivolous, but combine them with speed, numerous and heavy vehicles and a general lack of forsight/skill/ability and you’ve got the base ingredients of a disaster.
I base my opinion on 27 yrs exp. in one of NSW frontline emergency services, as well as almost 25 yrs working in the transport, bus and coach industries and having worked in many different areas of Sydney and NSW.
I think the lack of use of indicators is just another example of the lack of road craft many drivers exhibit. Driving well is a craft that needs a level of skill, practice and most importantly the correct attitude. Unfortunately attitude is the most important but the hardest to test.
This is becoming more and more frequent and has lead to a number of near misses in my case. It is even worse as a pedestrian. Crossing roads at busy roundabouts is particularly hazardous for our kids going to school. A lot of drivers don’t indicate at all (possible because they don’t see any cars around) and wonder why pedestrians get angry at them. Indicators are important for pedestrians too! I think this should be part of all license testing. My dad taught me to indicate regardless of where I am or who is on the road. By indicating out of habit, you never get it wrong.
Because the drivers of cars who fail to indicate in any useful manner are often displaying Red P or Green P plates could it be that those who have done the driving instruction have they themselves never be taught the correct way and passed on their shortcomings in this and many other ways?
This is a major problem. My wife has just been involved in an accident where a tractor she was passing decided to turn right into a driveway just as she passed him. The tractor driver did not indicate at all therefore causing the accident by driving into her.
After travelling around OZ for 18mths, 8 years ago we decided to settle just out of Nowra. One of the first things we noticed was that the use of indicators did not exist in this town. If a vehicle was stopped at a traffic light you quickly learnt to stop well back from it as when the lights change there is an 80% chance the car will just sit there waiting to turn right, or then turn their indicator on. 8 years down the track I can assure you that the “I’m not going to wear out my indicators” mentallity is alive & well and growing. I do agree with Margaret (above) about not indicating at a roundabout if you are going straight ahead.
I quite agree with Margaret re roundabouts. If I am continuing along the same road that I entered the roundabout I should not need to indicate as I am not turning left/right or changing lanes.
My gripe is when I am waiting at a T intersection and cars approaching don’t indicate which tells me that they are continuing along same said road – ONLY to indicate at the last second and turn into the street I am leaving. I make a point of when I am approaching one of these senarios that I will indicate earlier to let the other driver know of my intention and saying ‘ go for it, I’m turning, so if you want to go you have got room’
courtesy and common sense are disappearing from our roads.
Too many people are driving with thumb up bum and mind in neutral.
I guess drivers indicate when they make up their minds. In other words, most drivers do not know where they are going until the last second!
My experience is that most drivers indicate after they have commenced the turn or never.
Personally, I’m happy to be considered a nerd because I allow about 20 clicks before I make the turn (unless that is confusing with two or more turns close to each other). However, I get the impression that annoys others?
I am annoyed by drivers in slip lanes who assume they have right of way to merge into the main traffic, regardless of other traffic in the main road. Perhaps this has developed because of the courtesy shown by some drivers to make way for such incoming traffic. However, what about situations where it is not possible to make way (eg traffic in the right hand lane) or if intending to turn left immediately after the merge point?
Not indicating well in time of an intention to turn either left or right is dangerous and shows the drivers lack of knowledge of road rules, or their capacity to comply or simply an arrogant attitude to the law of this Land. However, the requirements set outl recently of stupid indications at roundabouts is worse and confuses motorists to dangerous levels. Worst still are the roundabouts which have numerous plants,trees or other obstructions thereon, thereby preventing drivers from observing indicaters of oncoming vehicles. Suggest NRMA investigate the two latter observations.
Firstly, I indicate my INTENTION to turn or change lanes early no matt3er if there is other traffic or not: It has become automatic.
Next, there are old to young drivers, a lot, that
- do not indicate at all
While travelling in Scotland last year we had a hire car with an indicating option of only three clicks before disengaging. We found this feature to be very helpful when changing lanes or merging (not requiring a physical disengage as would otherwise be the case). If more vehicles were fitted with this option the lazy drivers might be more inclined to use it as it would require only one physical action instead of two.
I have noticed that people are becoming more and more negligent in the use of indicators, unfortunately the worst offenders appear to be P platers.
There is another problem with the people who indicate and it flashes once then stops, you are never sure whether they intended to indicate or not.
I drove from the Blue Mountains to Yamba and back o the weekend and was amazed at the number of drivers who just didn’t bother to indicate when they pull in front of you. The amazing thing was they indicated to pull back in. It appears that more and more people are becoming lazy in their driving habits, I wish they could see some of the accidents this type of driving causes.
Re: Left and Right turn only lanes
There are plenty of times when I have approached such intersections for the first time (or the rare occasion) and I am not aware that the lanes are built for left/right only.
This is because there are so many cars banked up at those lights, and the marking is either on the road or at such a great distance away that the signs are not visible until you are nearly at the intersection.
In these cases, you may have to rely on the indicators of the car in front of you to know whether you are in the wrong lane or not.
So if you stick to the rule of ALWAYS indicating that will help in these cases.
I also disagree with Peter W who says you shouldn’t indicate when entering from a parked position. Sometimes you can’t tell if a person is exiting a park or simply badly parking. The indicator helps to “indicate” the intent of the driver.
I have recently returned from visiting family who live near Nice, France. I find the Australian concern with drivers not using indicators to be exaggerated. In my experience the great majority of Australian drivers are very courteous and conscientious in their use of indicators in all the appropriate situations. However, as a result of two months driving in the Alpes-Maritime I have decided that most French drivers regard indicators as an optional extra.
I have been a professional driver most of my working life driving cars, buses and trucks. In the earlier years I use to think that it was just people that drove volvos and 4wd’s that refused to indicate when changing lanes or turning. I’m still on the roads these days and the problem of people not indicating has gone way pass the volvos and 4wd’s drivers. To say this is a pet hate of mine is a understatement, I don’t find it hard to indicate at all times when I’m driving which only goes to show how LAZY a certain breed of the public has become. And isn’t it a pity this problem isn’t policed better.
Not sure I can agree with Marcel. There is a roundabout near our place that could be classed as being part of the same road. The entry and exit on this ‘same road’ equate to the 3rd or 1st exits depending on travel direction. Both share the same name.
When travelling in one direction, it requires you to take the 3rd exit, and actually requires you to steer around the roundabout in a right hand direction. Hardly anyone uses their right indication, probably on the belief that it is the same named road, regardless of the fact that you physically need to ‘turn right’ across the path of an exit (2). The amount of near misses here is astounding. Then when people entering from 2 do wait (because of the above) and the car does indeed exit at 2 the car behind them starts having a go.
I simply cannot see any reason not to indicate your intention as required. If I can manage to do this (indicate left on exit AND right when TURNING across the face of any other entry point on a miniscule suburban roundabout in a 12m articulated vehicle, surely it cannot be too hard for drivers of ordinary vehicles.
Unfortunately, the required use of the indicators have been deminishing as the ‘speed’ of the traffic increases. To indicate in advance, it seems you must think first, before you move. Not everyone does.
Definitely a traffic rule that is so often and increasingly ignored. My former police driving instructor stressed to me the need to indicate what you intend to do, and not what you are doing or have just done! At the other extreme, there are drivers who leave their indicator on well past the location in question, leaving the motorists behind in a quandary as to whether another turn is about to be made. I wonder if driving test examiners will fail learners who don’t indicate when required by law to do so.
I agree with the comments – increasingly drivers will not indicate lane changes or pulling out from the curb. However another trend I see occur daily is making U turns at traffic lights. Is the rule still applicable in this state that prohibits U turns at lights?
Well, what a shemozzle we have on Sydney’s roads now. This year I have noticed that many more people are trying to save their precious physical and mental energy by not using indicators. It’s diabolical for those selfish, rude and lazy drivers to think that they are above and beyond doing something that might actually avoid an accident or six. I wonder how they feel when other selfish, rude and lazy drivers do the same to them? Perhaps they feel that the abovementioned energy is best channeled into road rage and aggression. Driving was actually an enjoyable experience not so long ago.
No, I find that most drivers do indicate and it is the rare individual that does not, as I have been careless at some times.
The roundabout rules have been in existance in the U.K. since I was born (I’m 72yrs) and we were brought up to not only accept indication as mandatory but to also show our intentions by the position and speed of our vehicle. By this requirement most drivers, it would appear, are about to turn right at the next turning as they are not taught to drive on the left except when overtaking. The term used for these drivers is that they are ‘Hogging the crown of the road’ and they are fined accordingly for ‘Driving without due care and consideration for other road users’.
This is the reason why 90% of accidents are head-on collisions as they all drive like James Dean and play chicken by riding the centre lines. One sneeze, a child in the back or a mobile conversation and they have eliminated the few inches between them and the oncoming cars. But then agasin I have seen Driving Instructors actually teaching their pupils to drive like this so who teaches the instructors and the police never seem to penalise these guys. They think it is speed that’s the problem!!!
Car manufacturers have got to wake up – there’s a lot of drivers out there who see indicators as an accessory to the car – so if lots of drivers don’t use them, simply make them an optional accessory!!
Hey Ben Yee, I envy you! Are you driving at 3am when there is little traffic on the road? Are you driving in Sydney? Yes, I agree that we are all careless sometimes, but the “rare individual that does not indicate” must be just following me every day (mainly at peak hour) in different vehicles; changing their looks, age and gender; chucking ‘Uies’ in front of me; dangerously zig-zagging between lanes; near-missing my car when they are pushing their way in front of me; turning corners; going around roundabouts, and the list goes on.
Maybe I just have to sharpen my ESP powers instead of those drivers worrying about actually being respectful.
Failure to use turn signals to inform other drivers of intention is a demonstration of arrogance and selfish disregard for everyone else on the road, as well as being lazy. Also it seems to interfere with some drivers’ use of their mobile phones. Do these people think that using turn signals is only required when sitting for their driving test?
Personally I would love to see the police get out onto the M5 and other motorways and throw the book at all the arrogant aggressive fools who just zip from lane to lane at or above 110km/h without signalling, as well as on lower speed roads.
The NSW government would make a fortune if the Highway Patrol was fully staffed and if they started to seriously enforce all the road rules (not just minor speeding infringements) after many years of ‘anything goes’.
I agree with Miranda and P plater,
Port Macquarie is renound for it’s round about’s (up there on occasion to see my Nan)
after recently getting of My P’s and on My full licence back in June, I have been driving since 2004 when I got My L’s.
I have noticed in the Lower Blue mountains where I live and Penrith there are a lot of People Who FAIL to Indicate, and know the road rule’s.
For instance in May 2009 a mere 2 weeks before I got my full licence I was driving along in Blaxland stopped at a stop sign for a single lane subway stopped let 3 cars through (I had the stop they had give way) after they went through it was clear for me to Proceed while a Lady was coming round the round a bout on the other side I was had the carfully over the stop line and proceeding through the nose of the car was just in the sub way.
The lady Driver floored it around the round about and slammed the brakes on right in front of me started to say F this F that Effen P Plater blah Blah Blah. To the point where I couldnt back up (cop car behind me) or go forward due to this Stupid woman that kept lurching forward and trying to push her way through,
The cops stepped in made her Move,
But Full Licence Drivers tend to Forget with L and P plater’s, is that they are New to Driving they havent got as much experiance as a full licence driver who say has held there licence for 10 + years.
L and P platers do have one advantage over full licence Driver’s, That is They Know the Road Rule’s (wheather they stick to them is another thing)
My self included, Full licence Drivers can tend to be a bit arrogant and self centred when it comes to L’s and P’s,
in my some what 5 years driving (come december it’ll be 5 years) Not once Have I seen an L or P plater fail to indicate.
I have seen countless Full licence drivers fail to though (my mother included) and a number of Truck Driver’s (2 of which I encountered on the F3 in July)
My Challange is to the Full licence Driver’s who have held there licence for 10 + years is to put your self in a New or young drivers shoe’s and see if you know the Road rules of TODAY, and not the ones where you got your licence out of a weet-bix box, back in the day of Paper / laminated Licence’s.
Rule’s Have Changed, Now teaching my sister to drive is a challange, Because the L’s questions of 2009 are different from the L’s Questions of 2004, Evan I have had to study and catch up in order to pass the DQT to obtain my full licence (DQT driver qualification test)
So are all you full licence Drivers up to date with the rule’s, I suggest you go to the RTA website and do a couple of L’s and P’s practise test’s and see how you fair up.
I “share” the road with many forms of transport – car and motorbike being my two vehicles of choice. And have done so for about 20 years. And this habit of “optional” indicating appears to be increasing. I will also be quite controversial and state that it also appears to be more prevalent amongst the drivers of our luxury or European vehicles! I don’t think I need to mention makes and models…you know which cars I mean.
What is the minimum value for the vehicle which has indicators listed as “optional extras” in the brochure? In these financial times, I might be interested in saving a few bucks!
Huh? There must be a parallel universe where P platers and others all use their turn signals and don’t just zip between lanes and make turns without warning (not to mention tailgating and doing whatever speed they feel like because they know there are almost no police patrolling the roads).
In the universe I inhabit, I’m seeing all the same flagrant disregard for the road rules which Marina and almost everyone else here is seeing, and a high proportion is by P platers especially green P platers who seem to assume that P stands for “Proficient Driver”.
Reading back through all the comments, I agree with what Daniel Dacy said on September 4th.
Tailgating and parking on the wrong side of the street, like hanging one’s right arm out of the window and driving while holding a mobile phone up to an ear, is just one more example of the ‘Look how I can ignore the rules without any consequences!’ mentality which years of not having a significant traffic police presence on the roads has encouraged.
The fact on Sydney roads is that as long as you don’t drink excessively before driving and you slow down to the speed limit when passing a Revenue Camera, you can do whatever you like with almost zero chance of getting booked. Everyone knows it and lots of fools exploit it. Non-use of turn signals is just one more symptom.
Go Bob!
Thanks Marina!
I’ve been driving up and down the M5 the last couple of days and the standard of driving on display there is appalling.
The number of fools who casually zip from lane to lane without signalling and often with very little space between them and other vehicles is higher than the number who actually make the ‘huge’ effort to operate that little switch next to the steering wheel and have the courtesy to inform other road users of what they’re going to do.
Don’t licence test examiners even check to see if applicants understand the rules about conveying intention to other drivers these days?
The NSW government would make a fortune if they sent a few Highway Patrol cars along the M5 to book all those sloppy drivers, but I didn’t see a single one in quite a few hours of driving.
And then there are those who indicate (only one or two blinks) AFTER they have changed lanes and cut you off. The fact they are called ‘indicators’ surely should assist those with some lack of sense, that they are there to ‘indicate’ your intention, not to let someone know that they actually work, but they could not be bothered to use them. I also find that a lot of people will actually brake when approaching an intersection or worse, a driveway, and THEN indicate, rather than indicating first and then braking, so that you are aware that they will soon be slowing down. I find this can often be an even bigger safety issue, and unfortunately the law states if you run into the back of someone you are at fault!
The RTA has a lot to answer for. All they ever concentrate on is speeding & drink-driving in their advertisements. All road users know about these after having been exposed hundreds of times to them. If they don’t know these fundamentals they shouldn’t be on the road at all.
A change of policy is in order. How about new advertisements explaining other road rules like correct indicating & how to navigate a roundabout safely. This would be more productive & prevent I believe thousands of collisions/injuries per year.
I have yet to see any road statistics contributable to incorrect indicating or improper roundabout technique. Also, the Police should be having specific operations targetting these two basic road rules.
Robert, I couldn’t agree more! I just encountered a ute at a roundabout which wasn’t showing any turn signals. Just as well I didn’t immediately proceed even though I had right of way, because the fool did a full 360 degree loop through the roundabout while chatting on his mobile phone (which of course meant he couldn’t use the turn signals even if he wanted to).
Why does the RTA have no mechanism in place to prevent idiots who have no intention of following the road laws from getting a driving licence?? Aircraft pilots have to pass stringent tests to prove they’re knowledgeable, careful and responsible. In NSW apparently these days the RTA will hand out a license to anyone who knows how to start the engine. Grrr.
There is that joke that appears on eBay UK from time to time announcing the sale of a “3-year old indicator stalk from BMW 3-series, *never used*”.
Ken (comment 2) is right; you are indicating your intention to act. Once you’ve acted, it’s too late.
Indeed, you won’t get let it at all if other drivers can’t read your mind.
In Sydney the rules are: 1 indicate, 2 look, 3 merge quickly, 4 wave to the driver that gave you those extra centimetres to merge in.
Roundabout indicating confuses many. In Canberra most drivers know the rules. What they don’t understand is the indicator rule to Give Way to an ACTION bus. I often see drivers on the wrong side of the road honking at the bus driver (instead of watching oncoming traffic!) because they ignore the rule.
As for _car design_, many cars have indicators that are difficult to see when approaching a roundabout at an angle. Consider an oncoming car. It can be difficult to see until the car has passed the centre and is starting to turn right. You could be pulling out. That is a safety issue.
And European cars have the advantage of the indicator on the “wrong” side. It is much easier to indicate out of a roundabout down with the left hand rather than up with the right… in my experience. Very handy if the car is manual, as you only need one hand to shift and indicate.
This is definitely an increasing problem (along with U-turns over double centre lines and U-turns at traffic lights).
It seems to be a particular problem for expensive black cars, like Mercedes, Audi, Range Rover, etc. And Saab convertibles, of course. Maybe the indicator stalk is on the “wrong” side in these Euro verhicles…
I agree with most of the comments. People have a habit of not indicating these days or leaving it till the last minute.
Apart from not indicating, what I find more frustrating is the driver who, when they indicate, think they have right of way, and commence their turn, then get offended if you toot them. Who teaches these imbeciles to drive?
Hi Karen, maybe the question is: which imbeciles in the RTA are handing over licences to imbeciles who obviously have no concept of the idea of telling other drivers what they’re going to do *before* they do it, so as to maintain an orderly and safe traffic flow?
Personally, I think the fine/demerit system is to blame. $2,200 and a loss of two points is quite severe for failing to indicate, and I think NSW Police officers agree, leading to a reluctance on their part to issue infringement notices for the offence. Unfortunately, that is the only tool they can use to improve drivers behaviour.
Consider instead of handing over $2,200 to the Office of State Revenue, a driver had to attend traffic school, at their expense and in their own time. I personally think a well thought out training course for infringements of a technical nature, such as ‘how and when to indicate,’ would be much more effective than the big stick of fine/demerits.
Indicating is not an art, it is a habit that needs to be second nature to every motorist.
When I first started driving some 35 years ago, we used hand signals as most vehicles did not have automatic indicators.
Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre was the habit to cultivate.
It was considered part of good driving etiquette to signal your intentions ahead of time as an act of courtesy to other drivers.
With modern vehicles, it is so easy to indicate with just the flick of a lever.
What is the point of setting rules when they are not enforced consistently and regularly but only on a random basis?
“Experienced” drivers are the main offenders. L and P platers observing such behaviour soon learn that it is Ok not to indicate as well. So the practice of not indicating propagates.
Just like other bad driving behaviour, the underlying reason for not indicating is selfishness, discourtesy and laziness.
Motorists who do not use indicators are only concerned for their own interests and do not consider that their actions could benefit other motorists and result in smoother and safer traffic flow.
Such Motorists use indicators as a “demand” signal. When they want to change lanes, they signal as a demand to other motorists to let them have right of way. Sometimes you only see one “flash” as they push their way in. Some don’t indicate until they are already in the middle of their manouevre.
Sadly, this is one good habit that is disappearing and legislating against not indicating without enforcement is futile.
Thanks Philip, you’re seeing what I’m seeing. When I look at all the drivers chattering on their mobile phones, charging through roundabouts without indicating or even slowing down, hanging their arms out the window and only using turn signals if they feel like it, it’s obvious to me that neither the RTA or the police in NSW are interested in road safety any more. Anything goes on NSW roads now.
Our wonderful state government’s happy just to get speeding fines from fixed revenue cameras and the occasional police officer with a speed gun who’s got nothing else to do. There’s no enforcement of the traffic laws and obviously things are only going to get worse.
And yes, new drivers learn totally sloppy selfish aggressive driving from the example of other road users.
Plenty of comment on this subject. The topic has obviously hit a nerve.
Best teacher is what you see around you, so we should all do what we say. Indicate one’s intention to change lanes before doing so.
And bring in a little more courtesy on the roads. Let others into your lane (it’s not a race track) and wave thanks when being allowed into a lane.
What I find the most annoying is when some motorist is stationary at the kerbside and then decides that he/she want s to pull out and join the other road users. Its like he/she feels its their right to “bawk” you in that “hey, I’ve got my indicator on, let me jump out in front of you”.
I will never put my indicator on, until the road is clear behind me, then I will do it only because its the law. Lets face it, these fools could easily use the excuse of “I indicated, but then he hit me”.
Indicate? There are a lot of fools who still do not know it is an offence to overtake on the nearside where roads are not marked in lanes unless the car in front is turning right, whether they indicate or not.
Perhaps road safety would be better served if such dangerous acts as “not indicating”, “using a phone” etc. were policed instead of small overspeed limits.
It is a fact of life that there is no respect for others in this so-called modern day. If people don’t respect themselves, how can they respect others? (Oh dear- I feel a sermon coming on!)
I’m with Wayne!
Lately it’s occurred to me that because such a high proportion of Sydney drivers misuse and don’t use turn signals, none of us can trust the signals or lack of them from any other car.
This means always getting into the left lane at intersections so as not to get trapped behind the inevitable fool who’s going to turn right without signalling, stopping at roundabouts so as not to get hit by the fools who go around without signalling, and not pulling out in front of anyone signalling that they’re going to turn into the side street we’re in, because so many half-wits drive along with their turn signals flashing for kilometres.
In other words, we might as well not have turn signals on cars now at all because at best they only indicate what the driver *might* do. And the RTA makes no effort to correct this dangerous situation – they just keep installing more and more revenue (‘safety’) cameras.
What can be just as dangerous is people who don’t notice their indcators haven’t turned off automatically or forget to turn them off.
This can be a disaster when turning at a busy T intersection. Sometimes we need to act quickly and the only opportunity is when someone is turning into the road you’re coming out of. If they end up going straight ahead instead of turning then there’s your collision.
Also if we are travelling behind someone who has their indicator on we may alter what we are doing. We may wait to overtake or change lanes until the person indicating in front carries out their intention. After a few kilometers down the road you realise they have no intention of turning.
I had a good read of most of the comments here. Why is everyone picking on P platers? Get over it. I’m a motorbike rider and as a result of the way car drivers drive I ride like I’m invisible, cause not only do they not indicate they don’t look!
The biggest offenders I find for not indicating aren’t P platers. Its the MIDDLE AGED driver that thinks because they have X amount of years experience they know how to drive AND THEY DON’T. In fact they have probably always been a bad driver. Don’t get me wrong I think the current lot of probby drivers is crap but who taught them the bad habits in the first place? Oh wait it would be the age group who complains the most about p plate drivers.
And in case you are wondering its been 16 years since I had a P plate on my car.
I had a bit of a look through the comments and I couldn’t see anyone picking on P platers – it might have been very early in the discussion.
Regardless, I agree with Shaddow that many of the worst offenders are in their 40s and 50s and they should know much better. And yes, they are setting a very bad example of “anything goes” for young drivers, and then more young drivers soon learn to believe that there’s no point using turn signals because no-one else does.
The end result is the near-chaos which exists on NSW roads where there are no police patrolling and booking bad drivers like they did 20+ years ago.
Reading on the actual website NRMA Motoring Blog tonight advising that a $2,200 fine for “not using an indicator” and the money goes to the Office of State Revenue. Do any of you know anyone who has been imposed with such a fine? I drive M5, Hume H’way, Woodville Rd to Granville every day for the past 6 years and have only seen possibly 2 police patrol cars and never encountered any of the bad drivers been pulled over for offences. I will black list the so called experienced “P” drivers as they pounce in and out of lanes (without indicating) to get ahead of the traffic, only to find I pull up beside them at the next set of traffic lights. I will also admit that some”black licenced” drivers also do the same. Last year I experienced a driver (at the time I had no idea of age or sex) sped down the 3rd lane of a merge to 2 lanes to try and get in front of a double bogie semi and this vehicle got clipped on the front of the vehicle as it then realised it could not make it (also causing me to brake heavily). The driver of the so called vehicle then bolted into the right lane, pulled in front of the semi, slammed on the brakes stopping the semi, jumped out of her damaged car accusing the truck driver negligence and damaging her car. I was stuck behind the semi and decided that I would give support to the semi driver as I witnessed the whole incident. The driver (a “P” plater female” abused me in so many “f” words that I was lying and that she was in the right). I ignored her abuse and gave my details to the semi driver if he required me as a witness. I never heard any more from this accident/incident but I would strongly advise that this driver should attend some sort of traffic school, at their expense and in their own time. I personally think a well thought out training course for infringements of a technical nature, such as ‘how and when to indicate,’ “speed” slow down, merge at a safe and practical allowance lof distance would be much more effective than the big stick of fine/demerits. As much as I agree with the new “safety camera ahead” signs do make some driver slow down I also feel that it could cause major accidents as I myself am continually looking at the lights and am unsure if I proceed through a green light and get caught with traffic backlog and then I proceed through the intersection it turns to amber am I going to endure a fine and loss of demerit points, so impulse says” hit the brakes suddenly” to avoid an infringement notice and a loss of demerit points but could also cause a rear ender accident if the vehicle behind me is not aware of the safety camera or assumes I will continue through the “amber light”. This senario could cause a lot of innocent accidents and injuries,. RTA, NRMA and Police Commision needs to look into these situations and resolve the problems. Commit themselves to “saving lives” and not gaining “revenue” as none of this is actually is going to the improvement of roads. Woodville road has so manypot holes that have been temporily fixed in the last 4 months but it feels like your driving in the outback and need a 4 wheel drive.
The wording of this is entirely wrong.
The road rules state that a driver must indicate a change of direction.
Surely this is a “desire” to change direction, not an “intention”.
The road rules also state that a change of direction can only be made if it is safe to do so.
For example, when changing lanes or merging, where a vehicle has to cross a broken line, it MUST give way to a vehicle already in that lane.
A little courtesy goes a long way, and a thank you is always appreciated, but I get very peeved at drivers who “force” their intentions without regard to my safety space. ( I’m a latent road-rager !! )
I do a return trip of about 40k most days and there isn’t one trip where I don’t have to take evasive action because of these idiots.
And speed/safety cameras don’t offer any penalties for not indicating, or changing direction in an unsafe manner do they.
Hmmmmmmm if this is the LAW as indicated, why isn’t the police raking it in? One single trip up the M4 from Parramatta to Penrith will rake in 10 or 20 drivers for breaking the rule – and on the way back, another 10 or twenty.
Imagine, all the money that could be “raised” on just one single stretch of road, the police could rake in millions and millions if it were done Sydney wide.
In no time, we would not have any more P-platers on the road, L-platers would be a thing of the past, and everyone would be catching the train as their would hardly be anyone left on the roads.
Only good drivers like me would be left to roam the roads, free of traffic.
Xandro.
I host an online TV show with a few mates and we have a road rules segment in which we set up a hidden camera and evaluate driver behaviour. In our 6th Episode we looked at indicating and our test showed a really positive result in Brisbane. 89% of drivers we observed indicated.
Neutral Episode 6
Someone please tell me that this is not true.
I am appalled to read in “The Daily Telegraph” today ( page 3 – More demerit points ) that quote “Offences such as not using indicators and roundabout offences would now incur no loss of demerit points.”
What is this government doing – pandering to the mindless idiots on the roads ?
Come on NRMA and Wendy Machin, use whatever muscle you have to get this stupid piece of legislation repealed.
Not having to indicate a desire to change direction – ye gods, what next !!
Thanks for alerting us to that, Morgul.
I can’t find any confirmation of that on the net, so like you I hope that it’s just more journalistic distortion of the facts by the Telegraph.
According to the RTA website at http://tinyurl.com/2aaqdjj, there are still penalties for turn signal non-use and breaking rules at roundabouts. And did you know that the penalty for “Drive/stand vehicle with speed evasion article” is $1346 and 9 demerit points?! How disproportionate is that?
I sure won’t be voting for those Keneally clowns this time around – I’ll vote for the party which supports some kind of order on our roads and taking them back from the hoons and idiots.
Lol, indicating… In Sydney one really *has* to indicate because the roads are so crowded there’s *always* going to be someone close by who needs to know…
In my experience, Sydney drivers are actually far better at using indicators on average than other states, the one I most notice is Adelaide…
I am sure Adelaide motorists believe the indicator is ornamental, because they rarely seem to use them, especially when changing lanes!
My advice if travelling around Adelaide in particular is to keep a sharp eye out for lane-changing vehicles because generally the first hint you have that they’re changibng lanes is as their car crosses the lane markings!
I hope that DT article is wrong, ppl should be up for a penalty if changing lanes on busy roads without indicating..
Undicating in roundabouts is another matter. Sure, I understand the law – indicate where you’re headed when entering the roundabout, then just as you leave the roundabout indicate left just before you exit…
However, the dificulty comes when dealing with smaller roundabouts such as we have in Darlinghurst where old fashioned grid streets intersect and they squeeze a roundabout in there… It just impossible to indicate right as you enter and left as you leave because by the time you enter and turn the wheel you’re about to exit right away…
SO in my opinon the law should be re-written to definie a different indicating equirement when on very small roundabouts -because following the law in that situation is almost dangerous and ceainly ridiculous!