Sydney has been called one of the most hostile cities for cycling. Many motorists continue to be frustrated sharing the road with cyclists. But according to Sydney Lord Mayor Clover Moore in her address to the NSW Parliament in June 2010, increasing the number of cyclists on our roads could actually decrease traffic congestion.
“The 1 per cent of inner-Sydney trips already taken by bicycle result in 25,000 fewer car trips every day. If people commute by bike for shorter distances they provide more capacity on the already overcrowded public transport services and speed up journeys for people who have to drive,” she said.
So if cyclists are helping to ease the congestion for motorists and improve the trip for commuters, what is it that motorists find so frustrating? Have cyclists made you late for work, or caused a distraction?
Many motorists who are also cyclists argue that riding their bikes on the road have made them better car drivers. Some cyclists have suggested that experiencing a cycling journey through Sydney’s traffic should be a compulsory part of getting a drivers licence.
What has been your experience with sharing the road with cyclists? Do you have any tips for safely sharing the road with them? Would you be happier if cyclists had their own lanes?
Cyclists in general are fine but if there is no dedicated cycle lane then motorists have to sit behind them traveling at cycle speed until it’s safe to pass. During peak hour traffic cyclists actually contribute to the congestion simply because they do not have a cycle lane. If the state government was actually serious about reducing traffic congestion they would give cyclists a dedicated lane. Sitting behind a cyclist is frustrating especially when going up hills. Cyclists should also obey the road rules by signalling and stopping at traffic lights and using cycle lanes where provided.
Is it safe to ride on Sydney streets? No!
Which traffic in which major city are you talking about where a cyclist slows anything down?
Fact is cars often impatiently scream around cyclists and then the cyclists pedal past them when they hit the jam 5metres up the road.
Fact is people are getting less and less patient and think that they have the right to beep/drive threateningly toward etc anyone who dares slow their oh-so-important selves down even for a second (even if the are just going to sit in a queue 10m up the road).
Or maybe they just get pissed off that people are able to avoid sitting in traffic by riding?
The vast majority of cyclists do not obey road rules, ride 2 and 3 abreast, are very intolerent towards motor vehicles, they also are very aggressive to other road users,
ride on sidewalks, and do not give a damn for pedestrians, I am elderly and have been struck twice by cyclists who, just ride on after tongue lashing me.
DAMN YOU CYCLISTS
Seems you don’t know the road rules: it is perfectly legal to ride two abreast.
As for majority breaking road rules: you mean like cars at stop signs coming to a complete stop? Or not operating mobile phones while driving? Or not using a horn except in an emergency or to warn a driver (rather than just “I’m irritated”).
Take a moment to consider that your hostile driving/beeping etc is much more threatening to someone without the benefit of a metal crash protection shell around them. I ride a bicycle, motorbike and drive a car and I know to give riders a bit of safety room and to not try and run them over to teach them a lesson.
In the mean time: look up the road rules you think the riders are breaking by riding two abreast.
Cyclists are a menace on the road as there speed differs so much to cars, they are difficult to see and flout the road rules continuously. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen cyclists pass between lanes of stopped traffic then stop in front of the cars at the red light holding everyone up or frequently run the red light totally ignoring the rules. I agree with the elderly gentleman about there attitude to other drivers. If they have a right to operate on the roads with cars then they should be paying registration and have their own lanes because they are a danger to everyone.
Cyclists must have lanes provided if we are serious about their protection and that of motorists trying to avoid them. Equally, cyclists have a responsibility to ride in single file!
Contribute to the cost of cycle lanes with a registration fee for every cyclist on the road.
It is actually safer for cyclists to ride two abreast on busy roads, it is also legal for cyclists to do this. The reason it is safer is that when riding in single file, motorists are more likely to attempt to overtake when there is not enough room, and therefore accidently side swiping the cyclist who is then seriously injured, or maybe even killed as a result. The motorist is then also in the situation of being charged with serious driving offences. Anyway good on Clover Moore for having a go at changing our dependence on cars in the city, she has a tough job on her hands contending with stick in the muds like Alan JONES and co.
I think motorists attitudes toward cyclists are bad because they are frustrated with the number of cars on Sydney’s roads causing congestion and delays for them. When they see a cyclist travelling slower than a car they believe that they must be causing inconvenience to a motorist, but when a bike is travelling faster than a car, they secretly envy the rider and assume they must be breaking the law or freeloading off motorists resources!
It really is a case of ignorance. The reality is that bicycles used for transport reduce motor vehicle and public transport congestion, require far less subsidies from general taxation revenue to build and maintain roads (you seriously don’t think motor tax and rego fees go anywhere near covering that do you?) and help reduce the prevalence of other health issues such as obesity and pollution, unlike motor cars.
The issue of driver’s negative attitudes towards cyclists has been studied in this report. Its well worth reading and can be downloaded for free.
http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm
Sydney drivers have a poor attitude to cyclists for a number of reasons.
Years of neglect by state government has made driving motor vehicles for many the only viable option to travel too and from work. Public transport is run down and in some area no present (North-western Sydney suburbs and the imaginary ghost train). The bus services that are available to us in the NW are overcrowded and often run late.
Pathetic planning on otherwise good infrastructure such as the M2 or M5 motorways mean that in peak hour these run beyond their capacity and are car parks.
People trying to rat-run in back streets to avoid congestion are too angry, ignorant or malicious to “allow” a cyclist to be ahead of them for 30 seconds without overtaking dangerously, blasting their horn, etc, etc, etc.
I commute by bicycle 5 days a week and 250km in total from Castle Hill to St Leonards. Most of the time motor vehicles are understanding. The 1% that are not, deserve the full weight of the law thrown at them. Unfortunately too many cyclists are killed by motorists, and nothing more than a slap on the wrist occurs.
Sydneysiders are generally selfish people, their antagonism to cyclists is just a reflection of life in a big city. You see if you don’t look after #1 you’ll be stuck in traffic longer.
Dear NRMA people.
I have just been reading the RACV site and thier involvement with the Ride to Work day in October. They are providing sponsorship and assistance in Bike buddies and encouraging involvement on the day.
What is the NRMA doing up here in NSW for this ride to work day?
You will find most cycle riders are also car drivers and many of those are your members also.
There is a percieved negitivity within the organisation to cycle riders.
I think you could be better than your sister organisation in Victoria, come on give it a go!
Regards, Phillip.
As stated above, the frustration motorists feel towards cyclists mostly comes out of the completely inadequate road and public transport systems in Sydney. Public transport is fairly poor in Sydney, with so many gaps in the network that in many cases commuters feel it necessary to drive. This results in a massive number of cars on overcrowded roads which in turn leads to incredibly slow travel times in peak periods. If a cyclist then happens to cause a momentary slowing down in the traffic, they then become seen as the reason for the traffic jams, even though they may be travelling at a higher average speed.
I commute on a bike, a 65km round trip. Most of the roads I use have a wide enough shoulder that I don’t get in the way of cars or obstruct traffic in any way. In the couple of places where I have to ride in a single lane, the traffic is usually moving very slowly, if at all, in peak periods. I’ve only been the victim of verbal abuse on a couple of occasions, when motorists see me as the reason for the slow moving traffic. On all of these occasions I have then passed the abuser and haven’t been re-passed by them after that, even on the M4 motorway. The idea that bikes hold up traffic is a furphy, but is constantly re-iterated. Motorists should be thankful that every cyclist on the road means one less car they have to sit behind, or one more seat on a bus/train.
I for one hate sitting in traffic and will do anything in my power to avoid it.
The main reason drivers dislike cyclists is because a cyclist is much slower than a car.
I am a car driver and cyclist. As a cyclist I try to be considerate and cycle on the left but this can be very dangerous due to car doors and drivers trying to overtake. Sometimes I feel its just safer to take up a whole lane and cop verbal abuse from the occasional car.
I admit as a car driver I can get frustrated when following a cyclist, but its just another anoying thing when driving in Sydney, like traffic lights, trucks, and congestion.
Everybody needs to realise that its important to be careful around a cyclist. One slightly wrong move and somebody could end up seriously injured or dead.
As a bicycle commuter I would love to see more bike lanes, bus lanes and clearways in both directions during peak periods so I could travel on main roads (usually the shortest route from A to B) with less impact on the general traffic lanes.
Call my cynical, but a motoring organisation asking about opinions on sharing the road with cyclists is like asking the fox to guard the hen house!
Some basic Truths:
1) Before ranting about cyclists breaking road rules, actually go and learn what the road rules are, especially the ones that apply specifically to cyclists!
I am sick of having ignorant drivers wind down their window and yell abuse at me because they think they are some sort of know it all. For example, the moron who came up behind a friend and I on a multi-lane road. We were riding 2 abreast in the left lane, as we are perfectly entitled to do, and Mr Smarty Pants pulls into the vacant right hand lane, slows down and winds down his window, then yells “Learn the Road Rules and ride Single File like you are supposed to!”, before he sped off like a coward.
Same with Bicycle Paths – we are not required to use them. Would you ride at 50km/h on a Shared Path? No? Well, neither will we, and if the speed limit is 5-km/h, what is your issue with us if we are doing 50km/h?
2) I am sick of hearing about the “you don’t pay rego” argument. Roads are not funded by Rego, they are funded from Consolidated Revenue. Rego barely covers the cost of administration. The other component you pay is called “Motor Vehicle Tax” and is a weight based tax on your car. Happy to pay my fair share…1000kg car = $245, 10kg Bicycle = $2.45
Furthermore, Local Roads are funded by Council from Council Rates. National Roads are funded by the Federal Govt from Consolidated Revenue.
If you want to press the issue further, why don’t you demand that pedestrians pay rego to walk on footpaths?
3) The standard of driving in Australia is appalling. Sure, some cyclists run red lights, but every day I see dozens of drivers on mobile phones, overtaking on double-lines, running red lights etc. Drivers that can’t drive in a straight line, have no idea how big their vehicle is, and clearly don’t know any of the road rules. The licencing system is clearly letting unqualified people behind the wheel. Maybe all driver training should be provided by qualified instructors only, not just anyone with a licence.
Sydney motorists have each other to blame – not cyclists.
It seems to be sport to trap cars behind slow moving vehicles like buses and bikes. I see cars in the right lane speed up and slow down to deliberately make it difficult for these drivers to change lanes.
“Rat Runners” who are too impatient to sit on the highway in slow moving traffic race around back streets and find themselves stuck behind cyclists in streets too narrow to pass. They don’t get to their destination any faster, they just make roads more dangerous for kids and cyclists.
And finally, if you can’t safely pass a cyclist without threatening their safety, you need a few more driving lessons.
The person above who commented that ignorance is the cause of driver frustration is being proved right by the commenters who are complaining about cyclists not riding single file. Riding double-file is legal and makes no difference to motorists, who are required by law to change lanes to pass a cyclist.
The abuse yelled at cyclists from cars is nearly always based on the driver’s ignorance of the road rules.
Urban planning in Sydney has never factoring in cyclists who are really an entirely different mode of transport to motor vehicles or pedestrians. The result is that cyclists, who are just trying to get somewhere without getting killed, end up annoying the motorists or pedestrians who feel that cyclists are on THEIR infrastructure.
We need to do a lot more to accommodate the rising numbers of cyclists on our streets.
We need to provide high-quality, separated facilities along main city arteries such as freeways, train lines and rivers. In quiet back streets we need to design the roads for slow-moving local traffic only which creates a perfect environment for cycling. There is no excuse for cars travelling over 30km/h anyway considering that quiet back streets should be safe for children, the elderly and other vulnerable road users.
The attitudes of Sydney drivers towards cyclists often stems from a lack of knowledge as to the road rules as they apply to cyclists and/or the reasoning behind some cyclists behaviour. For example; cyclists in the city often take up a full lane as a safety measure to avoid being ‘doored’ or being clipped by a motorist attempting to overtake within the lane, this risk-averse behaviour is often incorectly perceived as arrogant, rude and selfish by motorists who don’t cycle.
Cycling has changed my perspective as a motorist, slowing down for a cyclist will often have no actual effect on my travel-time but merely delay my arrival at the next red-light, particularly on Sydney’s over-crowded streets. A little patience and consideration goes a long way regardless of wether you are cycling, driving or crossing the street.
I think cycle lanes are important on major roads where there is heavy high-speed traffic and within urban centres where congestion is an issue. However, poorly designed cycle lanes such as those that run next to parked cars cause more problems then they solve so it is imperative that such infrastructure is well thought-out and contributes to the safety of all road users.
I don’t think that motorists are especially frustrated with cyclists, despite the amount of aggression shown by some motorists.
Instead I feel that the frustration is with all road users, and most particularly with the users of other cars. This frustration exists because there is far too much car use, so the capacity of the infrastructure is exceeded.
I think it would be helpful if the NRMA were to encourage a little less car use, especially at peak times. For instance supporting car sharing would be very good.
It would also be good if NRMA could improve traffic flow by encouraging better roadspace sharing behaviours and speed management techniques, to get the most vehicles of all kinds through the choke points.
Finally I would like the NRMA to work to improve the quality and truth of the advertising images carried. Instead of allowing advertisers to push ‘king of the road’ individual aggression product to dominate other road users (and the off-road environment as well); motor advertising could present product with a kinder image of a community of road users enjoying motoring in a mutually pleasant and co-operative way.
This is rubbish. Sydney drivers don’t have a bad atttitude. It is the cyclists that are on the very roads that my rego and CTP pays for.
For goodness sake NRMA – publish the facts and stop the lies from people like Paul on the website.
Not only that, they break the law all the time, if you over take them, they overtaking by the left to the traffic light ONLY TO HOLD UP traffic AGAIN.
I absolutely hate them, roads are for cars, there is no place for cyclists!
Driving is perfectly safe, only 2000 drivers or so die a year and 20,000 or so are injured., why would anybody else use any other form of transport where less people die?
To encourage more people riding instead of driving Sydney needs safe separated cycleways.
As for cyclists causing congestions and traffic jams, who causes more traffic problems and congestions, cyclists or other cars?
@PeterTZ
That didn’t take long….
Yes, NRMA…please publish the facts so that folks like PeterTZ can be educated on where road funding comes from, especially since he is too lazy to look it up for himself, and does not even appear to know that CTP is insurance to cover injuries to people that he runs over while driving.
Oh, and thanks for backing up my case that drivers are mostly ignorant of the road rules, since it is perfectly legal for cyclists to filter to the front at traffic lights.
The roads are there to share.
One way to share with cyclists is to overtake carefully. The road users handbook says give one metre minimum clearance, more at high speeds. The road rules also imply that you should change lanes when passing a cyclist, not squeeze past in the same lane.
The other big issues are looking for cyclists when you open a car door, and never make a left turn directly in front of a cyclist. If there is a bike lane on the left with a cyclist in it and you want to turn left, slow down and pull in behind the cyclist, then turn left. You are allowed to drive in a bike lane to make a left turn.
I don’t find cyclists frustrating. On my commute I pass hundreds of cars, but only a couple of bikes. They’re not taking up space on the road and if I have to wait a few seconds to pass safely it makes no difference to my travel time.
I support bike lanes but bike riders are perfectly legitimate road users and should be treated that way.
I hope the NRMA is being constructive and not just providing a soapbox for pathetic people like Mervyn Baker above.
I don’t think motorists are frustrated by cyclists. Most motorists behave very well around cyclists, and give them room and act with courtesy.
Similarly, most cyclists behave well and act courteously.
However, there are some road users who are frustrated and angry. Frustrated about the congestion, frustrated that they are not moving more quickly and angry that all these other people are holding them up (apparently oblivious to the fact that they are part of the problem themselves).
When those angry people are driving, they slice up other road users, swerve in and out of lanes, overtake dangerously, block junctions and run red lights. When those angry people are riding bikes they go too fast on paths shared with pedestrians, run red lights and swerve erratically in and out of other traffic.
The difference is, of course, that the angry drivers are much more likely to kill or injure someone else than the angry cyclists. Five people are killed *every day* on our roads in motor traffic accidents. Angry cyclists are the cause of fatal accidents about once every ten years or so.
It is the case though, to make a more general point, that most people are ignorant of the road rules as they apply to cyclists. Every day cyclists get abuse (usually from the minority of ‘angry’ drivers) for doing things which are not only legal, but may even be for their own safety (such as riding in the centre of the lane to avoid car door hazards). And those angry drivers sometimes swerve at the cyclist, pass too close and too fast, or drive too close behind (all of which, ironically, are prohibited in the road rules). Motorists who do this to other car users risk bending some metal. Motorists who do it to cyclists are putting someone else life at risk. Deliberately putting someone’s life at risk for the sake of your journey being two minutes longer? That’s unacceptable behaviour.
It’s amazing the things you see when you ride a bike… Drivers are almost universally considerate, calm and patient. Very few drivers are the angry, hostile people this article is about. A few things I do see often enough to expect them to happen are that most drivers will overtake a bike regardless of if it’s safe or not. It’s actually quite normal for them to pull out over double lines, even when there’s a blind corner immediately ahead. It’s incredible that drivers put themselves at such risk. If I were a slow truck, I’m certain they would not overtake until it was safe, but for some reason people take these incredible risks to get past bikes. It’s strange to then read people saying that cyclists do not follow road rules… Very few drivers could honestly say they never speed, never run “baby” red lights, never use their mobile phones while driving etc. The roads are there to share and we all need to behave ourselves and consider each other and our safety.
Martin G has a good point.
The NRMA could improve the lot of motorists by thinking outside their tin can.
A major frustration for long distance commuters is the streams of traffic that impede them as they come closer to the city. Moving short trips onto bikes, foot or public transport would ease this flow.
Similarly, setting up car pooling from remote suburbs would share the frustration of driving and provide some emotional support for the frustrated driver.
I would also support getting rid of some talk back radio hosts who seem more intent on winding up their listeners than trying to calm them down. When a certain shock jock decided to take on the City of Sydney cycleway project, we saw a sharp increase of road rage against cyclists.
Seems Australian riders are rude people.
Vini
A major frustration for long distance commuters is the streams of traffic that impede them as they come closer to the city. Moving short trips onto bikes, foot or public transport would ease this flow.
Vini
I live in Bondi and I work in Surry hills. It’s about 7km each way depending on the route you take.
1f I catch public transport five days a week, that’s 7.5 – 10 hours of painful commuting (that’s right, it’s takes me 45 minutes to an hour on the bus EACH WAY because of traffic congestion), it costs me around $35 – $40 a week and my arse doesn’t get any smaller from sitting on a cushy bus seat.
If I ride my bike 5 days a week, that’s 5 hours of productive exercise a week, I’m saving over $1500 a year in travel expenses and you know what? My arse is getting smaller, my heart is getting stronger – which means I won’t be a drain on the public health system in years to come and I’m not contributing to Sydney’s pollution.
So you if you see me cycling on the road, instead of getting upset by the 20 – 30 seconds that I might hold you up (yep, 20 – 30 seconds. Count them, you’ll be surprised) think about how one less car on the road is actually speeding up you trip. If you’re on a bus, think about how you might be sitting in the seat I might have otherwise occupied. If you’re walking on the footpath, think about how I’m keeping the air in sydney that little bit fresher – and wave to me! I am a friendly cyclist who is just trying to save a bit of time and money and reduce a bit of CO2 and cellulite.
I see two types of cyclists: 1) the cyclists using the roads to commute to & from work and 2) the cyclists using the roads to train or to excercise.
I think the problem and the frustration upon motorists rests with the latter type of cyclist.
This type of cyclist display an arrogant attitude and actually go out of their way to be a menace and block access to quicker modes of transport. They usually ride 3 or 4 abreast and where bike lanes exist, they will on purpose ride outside side of them.
Additionally I feel that bike lanes are being added with a destructive agenda by a minority with no thought given to overall logistics of carting all modes of transport and ultimately interfering with the business operation of our society. This attitude is also frustrating the motorist as well as business owners and managers not forgetting residents.
Before any further bike lane construction continues by comrade Moore, I would like to encourage the NRMA to push for a high level summit be undertaken to address all interests fairly. Personally, i would like to see:
1. better access for motorists and the well-being of business operations before any further bike lanes are marked off.
2. safe bike lanes where logistically possible for the cyclist using the road to commute to work or school instead of using a motor vehicle – generally good for one’s health as well as society.
3. banning recreational cyclists from our roads – they should be encouraged to use appropriate cycleways established in parks or velodrome – On this point, we dont make special lanes or access for joggers or recreational runners at the detriment of motor vehicles.
Thanks for the comments everyone, its great to hear feedback from the community on this important issue.
We are currently running a joint schools program with Bicycle NSW, if you know any students that maybe interested share this link NRMA Gold Medal Challenge .
Cheers
Steven Bradley @ NRMA Motoring & Services
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. The arrogance of cyclists is what causes all the trouble. Remember, car v bicycle – Who’s going to win. No different to car v train – Who’s going to win??!!!! Wake up and realise that you, the bicycle riders, do not own the road and there is in fact road rules that prohibit much of the attitude and errors of how bicycle riders, ride on our roads. See road rules, 245-1 & 253 (Road Rules 2008) and then tell me you want to carry on about it.
For anyone who has not heard of these rules and notices a bicycle rider breaching these rules, all you have to do is make a report to the Police, make a formal statement, be prepared to go to court and any competent Police officer should issue a Court Attendance Notice to the bicycle rider. The only hard part is getting the riders name and address. But if you notice the rider at a certain time of day, the Police can catch up with them (eventually).
Hope this helps many, including bicycle riders to start the attitude adjustments. In fact, just today, I was out walking at lunch and a bicycle rider all dressed up like he’s ready for the Tour De France (try hard) just ‘thought’ I would get off the footpath (not a shared zone), unfortunately he was mistaken and will think twice about doing that again.
Mars – you’re a goose. Im not sure how it works on your planet (or alternate universe?) but here on earth cyclists ride aggressively because they have to assert themselves on the road. And they have to assert themselves because of aggressive, out of control drivers who think they’re above the law – and might as well be. Good on you for giving it to that WMD on two wheels riding on your footpath. Now we’re all safe. You’re my hero. You drive a range rover don’t you? (or is that a mars rover?)
@Snickers – Mate, go and eat your rat infested peanut choc bar and I bet you are one of these bicycle clowns that rides however you like with no respect for the road rules and when you do drive, you have no idea what’s going on around you?? Hmmm??? On the mark aren’t I!!
You’re a dribbled, mars. I bet you’ve got a ponytail and wear crocs. You shouldn’t be anywhere near this blog – the fact you avoided the issue completely proves you have no idea. Lay off the space cakes.
I admit to having a bad attitude towards cyclists.
As a generality, they don’t obey the road rules ( are worse than car drivers ), aren’t licensed, don’t have third party insurance, travel way too slowly, and hold up traffic, particularly on main roads.
Due to a total lack of planning ( and money ) there is no infrastructure in place to seperate cars and bikes. The roads are designed for vehicular traffic.
Seperate bikeways are the only solution, but don’t hold your breath waiting.
In the meantime, get them licensed, registered, and paying third party insurance like the rest of us road users.
I don’t think there is bad attitude by drivers towards cyclists. I think the bad attitude goes both ways. People can quote rules all they want it doesn’t help them share the road any better and the generalisations people are making about both sides is laughable. I feel both parties have extremists that have lost the ability to be courteous.
The real problem is, why are cars still driving in inner cities? Why don’t we have enough GOOD public transport so that this isn’t an issue?
@snickers. Are you looking in the mirror when you say, “a ponytail and wear crocs”?? I think so, because you are so self obsessed with yourself, that’s all you see. Wake up and smell the roses, not that green leavy stuff you must be on. Keep riding your bike with your total disrespect for the rules and filthy attitude and yes, you will just become another tragedy on our roads. Good luck…You need it!
Hmm. Scary stuff. I ride on Sydney roads and I must say it is the worst city to ride a bike. Sydney is just so self absorbed and car focused. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great city in other regards, but it’s time to grow up and accept that bikes are a much better transport solution than cars in cities.
Sydney needs to wise up and go visit Melbourne
Sydney is light years behind ,,,iN melbourne you can use a bike lane to get anywhere ,, Sydney is the worst and most unsafe place to ride every car driver should stop and think about how much money they waste on fuel every week and get on a fuggin bike ssshhhheeshhhhh IDIOTS Sydney designed and maintained by zommmmmbies UUUUHHH BRRRAAINZZZ
To Mars and Peter TZ
Okay, I use my bike to commute to work, I also drive a car (and pay rego, CTP etc).
Since I have become a bike rider I now have an empathy that you two fools do not.
1. Not all bike riders disobey road rules – Lets stop the broad brush generalisations. For every bike rider I’ve seen that disobeys road rules, I’ve seen just as many drivers do some really stupid things.
2. When I ride my bike, I’m considerate of both cars and pedestrians (although why on a shared pathway a pedestrian wearing an iPod busily sms’ing wandering aimlessly would get a shock when I pass a little close is beyond me…).
3. Its completely legal to ride 2 abreast – Look it up.
4. I stick to the left wherever possible, when I dont its because of the potential for car doors to open or potholes that I could lose myself in.
5. If your walking on a cycleway, expect some verbal abuse ….
Here’s a crazy idea, how about we use this forum for some constructive discussion?
How about an opinion from an outsider? I’m from Ireland. I have cycled all round the world. Sydney to this day remains the most hostile-to-cycling place I have ever experienced. It was an experience of unprovoked rudeness. I was yelled at, honked at for no reason, I even experienced drivers swerving at me to intimidate me. I wasn’t disobeying any rules. I always ride at the side and don’t take up the road. Manhattan can be tough, but Sydney has an undercurrent of active threat. Reading the comments from the drivers here is educational as that behaviour now has a voice and it’s ugly. It’s straight bigotry. While you foam at the mouth about hippies or what people choose to wear, you are encouraging a culture that threatens other humans undergoing legitimate activity.
If you spend years on your bike in cities you learn the following thing: cars are large, stupid, dangerous animals. Stupid because they have tiny brains (the part you are using to drive). Experienced cyclists, on the other hand, are completely engaged, using every part of their brain and body continuously to remain safe in what is essentially a dangerous jungle. While you dream away in your machines, we are making 8 decisions a second. Potholes, car doors – one slip and we’re gone. We know all about you. You have little or no idea about us. If one of our decisions wakes you up from your dream, then welcome to the reality outside your metal box. That’s your 2 second holdup, and that’s our safety on the line. But I wouldn’t swap places with you for all the tea in China.
OK, I’m being polemical. But really this boils down to a matter of respect. There are plenty of places in the world where drivers respect cyclists, and there is no reason why Sydney, Australia can’t be one of them as well.
For Marko and Tony
Marko,
You must be an exception.
Hopefully the following might generate some “constructive discussion”.
My comments are not broad-brushed but are based on observations from 45+ yrs of driving in and around Sydney.
1. A bicycle is the only transport device legally allowed on the road which does not have to be inspected and for which you do not have to have a license ( and presumably know the road rules ), or pay registration and green slip insurance.
2. Not all cyclists disobey the road rules, but most do disobey them, particularly running red lights and not indicating.
3. Most cyclists are inconsiderate megalomaniacs who take no notice of their environment and pedal along in a world of their own. Yes, they have a right to use the roads, but they don’t own them.
4. Yes, it is legal to ride 2-abreast. However this is a dangerous rule that really should be changed to single file only.
5. Most riders do not ride as far left as possible. Their favourite track is about 1 1/2 metres from the verge or white line.
6. If you’re cycling at 20kph in a 50 , 60 or 80kph zone, and holding up traffic ( yes, we do slow down for you ) you can expect some form of notification to get out of the way.
Tony,
Yes, Sydney is a tough place on the roads. The public transport system is woefully inadequate, which is why most of us drive cars, or in some cases cycle.
The road network is also woefully inadequate, and there is no provision made for cyclists. Get used to it. We do. And yes it’s a jungle out there.
Cars are not large, stupid, dangerous animals. Just like cycles, they are a means of transport, both forms piloted at times by idiots ( who seem to be multiplying ).
And yes, we know all about you.
You belong to a very small minority who choose to travel slowly on a high density, much faster moving road network that doesn’t recognise or make provision for you, yet in the interim you expect to be given some sort of priority or special priveleges.
You have virtually no protection.
You currently account for 3.2% ytd of fatalities on NSW roads.
So if you choose to venture into the jungle, please plan ahead, protect yourself, and watch out for some of the fauna.
I am now convinced that we have truly lost the plot in Sydney.
Cycling is not and will never be the way most people get around in Sydney.
Cycling is a niche transport solution that has a small role to play but should not have become the focus for solving Sydney’s transport problems.
Proper choice in being able to choose a public transport option needs to be our focus and the subject of a massive investment in worthwhile projects.
To take out lanes of traffic for cycleways to cater for a minority is wrong. To take out lanes of traffic for any form of efficient mass transit (like a busway) for a majority is right.
I am assuming of course thought that a bus would come along the new bus lane – frequently. Maybe I shouldn’t assume this. Certainly not many cyclists come along the new Scalelectric-like cycle lanes. They do look pretty though. They do make the collection complete sitting alongside the Cross City Tunnel and shelved Sydney Metro I guess.
I can understand why motorists are angry.
As a 3 out of 5 day a week cyclist in Newcastle I am glad I dont have to ride in Sydney. Newcastle has its moments, but its not terrible and you learn which roads to avoid to maintain safety VERY quickly. This year, I cannot ride due to family commitments, and I hate it. Driving to and from work is the most mundane existance I can think of. Each day, it seems there are a few more cars clogging up the roads and taking up parking spots. The sheer volume of space taken up during a typical working day by parked cars is astonishing. Its amazing, people tell me they cant ride a mere 10 – 15kms, meanwhile an overweight person rides 50kms to work every day that I know.
Times will change. Councils are getting cars out of their built up area’s for a good reason, there are simply too many. Europes cars tend to be tiny little things for the most part, and this is not by preference but driven by practicality. Your mad if you think it will change in Australia.
If you want cyclists off the road, it will be at the expense of slower trips due to more cars and less parking. As someone who rides AND drives, I can fully recognise the reality that cyclists rarely slow a driver down enough to make more than a few seconds difference in an average short 10 minute trip. Longer trips obviously the result is even less!
So for a refreshing change, just think when you pass one, or get stuck for a few measly seconds, that they must be lucky to have the attitude and ability to get out and enjoy the world away from the mundane coocoon of the motor car. And while you are daydreaming, try not to potentially kill them…
I ride from near Strathfield to Potts point everyday and in general I do not any issues with cars, I make a conscince effort to keep very left and stop at every red light I come across, what really annoys me is that I am sitting at a red light and some muppet who is not smart enough to realise that helmets are like condoms they only work if you put them on.
These guys alot of the time run the red light that I am patiently waiting for it to go green and then I am lumped in the same category as these people which I consider quite unfair.
The cycle lanes are a great idea but it is the space that they do not cover is the real issue, after turning left after coming off the shared bridge that goes through Darling Harbour there is no cycle path for a few hundred metres and that is probably the worst part of my morning ride.
I know several people have issues with cyclist not paying rego, I would happily pay a reasonable amount if that would shut these people up and I would be left alone to keep fit and serve my country in the best way possible.
Hope to see a bit of mutural respect for every human being who is just trying to get on with their life
Roads have existed since milennia, ‘desire lines’ crossed the landscape so people, animals, human powered and beast propelled transport could get from A to B. Those petrol fuelled tinpots have only been around for the masses since the end of the second world war. Before that most people had bicycles or mass transit like trams, and trains. People talk as if the roads were invented for and have only existed for the purpose of car driving.
The NRMA if it is really a service organisation dedicated to “Road safety, road rules, fuels, car care and everyday driving” should take a leaf out of the motorists and ROAD USERS ASSOCIATIONS in other states. RACV supports Melbourne’s Bike Share, RACT supports Art Bikes in Hobart.
If the NRMA was really serious it would push for a compulsory Bicycle Proficiency Certificate to be issued by high schools, or CARES training facilities as a mandatory part of school education and for obtaining or retaining a motor vehicle licence. Cheap, easy to administer, efficient and effective way to have all motorists familiar with other forms of vehicle traffic, including pedestrians. The Dutch have had a similar scheme in operation for many years and begin driver training in preschool.
Get over it Car Drivers.
You fat morons behind a 1+ton vehicle should NOT be allowed to drive. These same drivers that have major issues with cyclist, seem to get annoyed at anything, even a pedestrian crossing at a zebra crossing.
Excuses, excuses by some of these fat cry-babies who hold a drivers licence.
Sure some cyclist can be annoying, usually KIDS! on bikes. The VAST majority of adult cyclist do the right thing.
Cyclist pay Taxes, most cyclist also drive, so they have EVERY right to ride their bike on any road that is allowed. Unlike these FAT car drivers that jump into their ugly cars to just drive around the corner to pick up their KFC, cyclist are fit and healthy and don’t clog up the health system with obesity and other fat related problems.
Jealousy is a curse fat drivers.
TBH the worse drivers towards cyclist seem to be those under 23 & of middle easten background, especially in western Sydney. They just can’t help themselves having a go at cyclist, morons.
Cyclist rule
@ cyling sailor – how about you pay rego and leave the rest of the cyclist alone. It is the very few in society like you that seem to implement stupid laws, which suit you but doesn’t suit the majority. Because 80% of cyclist will not pay rego and why should they, the majority of adult cyclist to start with drive and pay their rego/taxes. Quit putting ideas for more revenue raising into governments little minds. cause that is all it will be.
There never was a problem with cyclist up until the last decade or so, why is that. Maybe because every 2nd driver is doped up in some way. Make those dipsticks pay extra rego for their disgraceful attitude towards cyclist. Not the other way around.
Cyclist have every right to be on the road, quit making everything to be about money. There are ONLY a few things left in society that is free. How about we keep cycling free.
I worry about hitting them when they are all of a sudden there, going slower than me, in my lane, I can’t stop or swerve !
To all the car drivers who complain: If you cannot drive at a safe speed in consideration of other road users, and if you are also incapable of judging the speed and distance of other vehicles, and are unable to control your own vehicle then perhaps it is time to hand in your licence, and also not be a member of the NRMA.
I’m sure that the authorities including the NRMA don’t want their good names tarnished by members admitting to not being able to drive correctly, using cyclists as an excuse.
Almost every day a driver threatens my life on the roads – either by tailgating me until there’s a gap in the parked cars and I can get out of the way, or by overtaking where there isn’t room. The irony is I let cars pass at every opportunity and I rarely cycle slower than the traffic around me. As an experienced driver cyclist of more than 20 years experience I have to say Australian drivers are a disgusting and shameful species. If I attack someone with a bat I would be jailed, but in Australia you can attack cyclists or pedestrians with a 2 ton vehicle and the feckless and biased police will call it an accident unless someone catches it on film.