Have you ever missed seeing a school zone sign?
Have you ever driven in an unfamiliar area and suddenly realized you were speeding in a school zone and thanked your lucky stars you were able to slow down before anything happened?
Most drivers at one time or another will have experienced that slight jolt of shock when they have driven past a school while doing what they think is the legal speed limit and then realized the limit was in fact 40km/h. Sometimes the sinking feeling will have been replaced by a sense of profound relief if the school zone was not in operation at the time or if no speed cameras were in sight; however you can bet many people have been caught unawares, fined and lost demerit points.
Slowing down to 40km/h in a school zone makes sense. In any area where many children congregate drivers have to be on the alert for the unexpected to happen. That is why signs alerting drivers to school zones are so important. Most drivers want to do the right thing and will immediately slow down if they see a school zone sign. But here’s the challenge – you have to be able to see the sign.
In 2009 the NRMA audited school zone signs in Sydney and found that four-in-five did not meet the acceptable standard. Last week we audited the same signs and found an improvement with now one-in-five signs not up to scratch. It’s an improvement but still a long way to go. All school zone signs should be upgraded and clearly visible to drivers and the NRMA will be pushing for the RMS (formerly the RTA) to make this happen by the end of the year at the latest. We’ll also be keeping up the pressure for more flashing lights.
So what makes a school zone sign of an acceptable standard? Well a sign is definitely not of acceptable standard if it faded, cracked or hidden behind trees or billboards. The colour of the sign is also extremely important. After its 2009 audit of school zone signs, the NRMA recommended that all signs be upgraded to a fluorescent yellow green colour. This colour really stands out and can first be seen by drivers at a distance of 130 metres compared with 75 metres for non-fluorescent signs. That extra warning time is critical to improve safety and also help motorists avoid speeding fines and points. In fact, the previous NSW Government agreed with the NRMA and directed the RTA three years ago to replace all faded signs and upgrade to the fluorescent yellow green colour.
The NRMA will continue to push for all signs to be upgraded by the end of the year but everyone should keep the pressure on the RMS to do the right thing. If you see a school zone sign that is not up to scratch and clearly not doing the job it was designed for please report it to the RMS at saferroadsnsw.com.auand let them know the community is watching.
Have you seen any concealed school zone signs in your area?
Regarding School Safety Signs:
Bigge Street Liverpool, southbound (at that time with camera).
I think the signs should say “40″ and clearly indicate 50 at other times. (60 being the assumption)
The 50 sign is right at the corner and out of sight as one is rounding the corner in traffic and easily missed.
OK. Great. Flashing signs at the beginning of a School Zone is a terrific idea, however, if, like me, you live within the School Zone, what have we got to warn us that it is between 8 and 9.30am, or between 2.30 and 4pm?
I don’t wear a watch, my mobile is usually in my pocket, and the car I am driving (at the moment) doesn’t have a clock in it.
Wouldn’t it be a great idea to have the flashing signs on the front AND the back of the School Zone announcements, so that all motorists know when they are in a School Zone.
If you live within a school zone, and you don’t know what time it is, drive at 40….
If flashing lights at the far end are within sight of your home it must not be tto much for you to drive at 40 for that distance.
I urge the NRMA to ‘encourage’ the traffic authority to continue replacing the painted signs with the’ Flashing variety’. With SO MANY signs to be aware of, it’s just too easy for a painted School Sign not to register with the driver, whose also seeking to survive in Sydney’s crazy traffic, and [ironically bearing in mind that 'speeding' is the subject under discussion] watching his vehicle’s speedometer.
A further overall problem with the positioning of School signage is when such is of necessity placed BEFORE traffic signals. If one is stopped by a ‘red ‘ light, I find it very easy to forget about the signage viewed some moments ago, when confronted with the need to focus on the constantly changing traffic scenario one faces in driving off on the ‘green ‘. A sign the other side of the intersection would be ideal.
Whilst no doubt ‘government’ would baulk at the extra expense, Treasury does seem to find funds for other serious situations. Is not the saving of children’s lives serious??
On a related note, I have found several times that a school zone sign is posted before a traffic light, and the school itself is not until after the traffic light. By the time I have sat at the lights for 30s, I’ve forgotten it’s a school zone, and take off at the lights at normal speed. I really wish the road was painted in a particular colour for the whole length of the school zone, much like bus lanes are painted red, and transit lanes are painted every hundred metres or so, so you can’t forget.
Yes, I have thought of that too. Having the entire school zone road painted a different colour, would really help. Great idea!!
They have started that by putting so called “dragon’s teeth” at the beginning of the school zone. It may be a good idea to continue them for the whole length of the school zone.
Why can’t all school zones be 40k/ph all day Monday to Friday!
Most, I presume, are in 50 zones anyway!!!!
Makes sense to me?
I have 3 schools within 20k of me where the posted speed limit is 70km/h or more (1 is 90km/h) – so no, making it 40k all day would be a real pain.
There are “School Zones” all day in Queensland. I don’t believe they are necessary. As a retired NSW Police Officer I see them as a could be revenue raiser and that should never be. Police and Councils should be out there booking the double parkers outside schools and the dangerous drivers.
In any case there are many “School Zones” which have overhead crossings and fencing along footpaths outside schools (such as at Wiley Park and Yagoona”. The zones are not needed on main highways and are a terrible inconvenience to traffic. Lets be fair to the motorist for a change.
This is the most sensible comment so far. Repeatedly I find that slow drivers are often unsafe drivers and usually worse than drivers driving at or slightly above the speed limit. Slow drivers often lack awareness of what is going on about them and they are the ones who cross the centre line.
Obviously you don’t drive much! or you would not wish to burden other traffic users with unnecessary speed restrictions – people still need to get from place to place in reasonable time.
The point of having school zones is to make the area safer when schoolchildren are actually near or crossing roads – not while they are within the confines of the schoolyard (between 9:30am and 2:30pm, which allows for late starters and early leavers anyway).
Also you presume incorrectly. Many school zone are in areas with normal speed limits above 60kph, especially for those of us not living in the leafy suburbs. Please allow legitimate road users – the ones paying through rego, insurances and petrol taxes – a bit of an opportunity to go about their business or pleasure.
Thank you Robyn Harriot,
I was booked, fined and points taken at this school zone, for the same reason you have mentioned.
If you see an obscured speed sign in your local area, take a step ladder, secateurs and/or a bush saw and remove the offending foliage. Establish a safe zone prior to doing the work. Do not rely on government to do these things; if you do it yourself it will be done sooner, de done properly and your local roads will be safer.
Inattention on my part. Yes I deserved it. However, heading north in Stacey St, Bankstown and on reaching Liverpool Road, turned left and entered a “school zone” at 45 kph and got zapped on the radar. As a local in the Municipality I should have known, however how many unsuspecting non locals get caught. It would be interesting to know what the stats are for this speed camera.
Westmead is a nightmare. I was travelling north along Hawkesbury Road over the railway bridge to turn left on to Darcy Road, stated going down Darcy Road where there is Parramatta Marist High and one of the girls school on the left, and because it was 9.28am and I was doing 52km/h was fined. And I won’t complain about it too much as I was doing over the limit, the only problem is that with the number of signs around there, it is impossible to distinguish one from the other. I forgot the school was around there, and I missed seeing the sign because it is mixed in with all the others and is not a flashing sign.
Most school zones on major roads have traffic lights (beit intersection or ped crossing) betwween the start & finish. One only needs a short concerntration lapse if stopped at a red, then after the green one can easily forget they are in the middle of the zone, then snap, you’re gone….I’ve been caught like this on Forest Rd Hurstville. An extra advisory sign attached to the traffic light pole would solve this
On holidays on mid north coast. There is a hidden 40 zone and speed camera on the Pacific Hwy at Woolgoolga. You come down a very steep hill in a well sign posted 60 zone only to discover a flashing 40 zone when you see the speed camera. It needs much better signage at the top of the hill, but I guess it is just for raising money.
I live in NSW just outside the ACT and in Canberra their school zones run from 8.00am in the morning until 4.00pm in the afternoon, 8 hours. The start of the School Zone is clearly marked in most cases however unlike in NSW they do not display a sign saying “End of School Zone” all they show is a standard speed zone. It was not until I was informed by my son did I realise that this was the end of the School Zone. I have no problem with the 8 hours except to say that it is rather silly to have the restriction while the kids are in school but why cant they show a proper end sign like they do for the start to remove any uncertainty by visitors to the ACT.
40Km all day Mon-Fri? Do you drive? Most are in 60 zones (soon becoming 50km) and it is excruciating to keep the speedo at 40km when it is a wide, straight, downhilll grade and not a kid in sight. I’ve never seen a kid after 9am, why not stop this at 9:15 for a strangler rather than 9:30am. Not too sure about the afternoon shift as I am behind a desk.
Also has anyone noticed how smooth the traffic is on school holidays – you can drive at the normal limit. And why is 60km now becoming 50km? When one is travelling outside peak hour is it painful on that same wide, straight downhill incline.
Flashing lights are a great idea – they do twigg you to check your speed otherwise it is just another sign.
Why do we need school zones why dont parents take responsibility for their kids and teach them how to cross the road. Instead of pushing it onto drivers who have so much to watch for all whilst driving and maintaining safe driving practices.
I agree that it is sometimes difficult to remember if you are in a school zone if there are traffic lights in the middle. I saw such an example recently past Gymea HS. I remembered I was in a 40 zone and moved off at 40 km/h. Everyone else was roaring up to the regular 70 km/h for that section of the Princes Hwy.
By the way David – you accrue demerit points, not lose them. Therefore if you have no penalties you have zero points.
Melrose Park Primary, northbound on Wharf Rd. The school is mostly concealed behind trees and not obvious from the road and the 40 sign is obscured and should be made more prominent. It is a bit of a shock when you see the sign advising the higher speed limit and didn’t realise that you were just in a school zone.
Totally agree with comments about traffic lights within school zones. With the best of intentions it is easy to forget and accelerate back to the previous speed limit. I also think painting the whole roadway is a good idea – in heavy traffic and especially if you are unfamiliar with the area and trying to find your way + look out for bus lanes, street signs (often either absent or badly located), varying speed signs etc, it is impossible to take in every bit of information. I’ve missed school zones in these situations several times, and would definitely have slowed down if I’d realised. Have been fortunate not to be booked.
The authorities should be serious about protecting School children by Clearly showing Flashing lights at least at the beginning of the school zone. If the section of road has an intersection then reminder sign that they have entered a school zone. If the section of road ( school area is long distance – again a sin Hey reminder you are in a school zone. I interpret failure to NOT clearly show signs in a prominent place ( ie not covered or screened by bush or other signs should be seen as ” Lack of Duty of Care on the authority body ” and held accountable with ” the fine” that the Driver incurred – What they send out a group or body should receive.!
Painting the whole lane/road would be a bad idea. In most cases, if the road is wet, stopping time will increase and would be easier to break traction. Also, motorcyclists will find it harder to stop and also turn.
Hey its great that the NRMA is helping to improve the safety of school zones by improving how drivers can see the signs, but there is another area of the legislation in NSW that needs addressed
I recently went through a fixed speed camera in a school zone doing 50k. I thought the school zone was over but I was out by 8 mins. OK fair enough cop it sweet, but I saw NO signs mentioning a fixed speed camera because I came off a side street and through the camera.
Going back there was only 1 sign visible on my route, which could easily be missed as you turn the corner
I thought we were GUARENTEED that there would be three signs before any fixed speed camera, as the legislation for these was not aimed at being sneaky to catch you out (like Victoria) but to get you to slow down, and if you decide not to slow down after the warnings, you get hit then.
So I am not happy. I wrote into the RMS and the SDRO but they will not help. I now am faced with having to pay $50 for an annulment and probably have to take it to court myself.
Looking around there are lots of situations like mine where there are not 3 signs before a fixed speed camera. At least the school zones have the signs on the side streets, but fixed speed cameras don’t seem to. Had I seen the signs I would have definately slown down
It would be fantastic if the NRMA could address a broader range of notification signs – not only for school zones, but anywhere where there is to be three notification signs such as fixed speed cameras in NSW.
I’ve also been caught out in Bigge St, Liverpool. Travelling north about 3.00 pm, I accelerated from the lights and then was suddenly confronted with the flashing school zone light and observed a camera to my right. This happened about a week ago; so, I’m still unsure whether I’ll receive an infringement notice.
My comment is not so much on concealed school signs but on unfamiliar or unexpected signs. In Rydalmere in the block behind the Family Hotel, the streets are Pine St, Myrtle St and Wattle St. There are school signs in these streets that proscribe a 40km zone ALL DAY from 0800 to 1600. THe signs are relevant as there are school buildings along these streets. What motorists need to be aware of is the fact that the speed restriction is in force ALL DAY not just for periods in the morning and afternoon.
A 40km/h school zone sign is non-existent on Cooyong Road, Terrey Hills and the only indication of a school zone is the painting on the road, which is wearing and potholed. The exact location is westbound between Mona Vale Rd and Myoora Rd.
We have the same problem up here in Nth Qld the signs are so low to the ground (1 meter) that any person, car, truck standing or parking next to it completely blocks it from view along with the ones that are covered by tress, Police don’t care if you see it or not as they just tell you ‘too bad if you don’t like it take it to court’ which people won’t as the $300 fine is the cheapest way out, paint the road or flashing light is the only safe way to go not just handing out fines left right and center making heaps of cash
One issue which nearly caught me out recently was when I stopped at a normal intersection traffic “red” light which was in a 40 k school zone equiped with variable speed radar. It is very easy when the lights go green to forget the 40 zone.
My suggestion is that traffic lights in school zones flash green to remind drivers of the changed speed.
An example of where this is on Parker St Kingswood NSW outside St Dominic’s College.
While this is not an example of hidden signs it could certainly improve safety and compliance to the speed limit.
Regards Allan
The comment by Robert, above, is spot on. Many of us generally don’t need to be aware of the exact time to go about our daily activities and don’t always wear a watch. Come to think of it, I don’t think that being able to tell the time is even a requirement to get a licence, is it? Of course we all want to do the correct thing but sometimes it’s not made easy for us. Personally, I don’t think we need 40 zones around high schools. These people are adults and should be able to safely manage traffic like all adults must do. Different thing for infants and primary kids but why not 40 all day on school days near infants and primary schools?
At North Narrabeen High School / Primary School on Pittwater Road there are pedestrian lights in the school zone. Because the traffic is moving along at 40 km per hour, the students run across the road between the cars rather than waiting for the lights to change. This situation is more dangerous than retaining a sensible speed limit on a 3 lane in each direction dual carriage way.
The siting of school zones can be wrong too. At Barrenjoey High School, the 40 kph zone on Barrenjoey Road Avalon is devoid of kids, while up in the 60 zone at the Northern end, they are crossing the road to get to the bus stop. A wasted zone with pedestrian lights half way through, which is only useful as a revenue raiser.
Hi,
I also believe the way forward here is for the relevant areas of school zone to be marked/painted onto the road surface in bright yellow. Of course, there are issues with this that must be researched, such as the most effective wording/design, ensuring the paint surface used does not compromise the surface grip of the bitumen; but this concept would give drivers a very positive indication that they are in a “go-slow” area. I believe that painting it onto the road would create a different kind of error – drivers slowing down outside of the proscribed school zone times – but really, that’s not a bad thing.
Just wondering whose responsibility is it to ensure that the signs remain highly visible after installation.
The RTA did away with yellow paint many years ago as a cost-cutting exercise. Yellow paint is more expensive than white.
Painting the road surface reduces the coefficient of friction, so you would end up with a more slippery surface, particularly in the wet.
In addition to highly visible signs, maybe there should simply be ripple strips at the start and end of each zone ? They slow everyone down !!
Are there any stats available about incidents before and after the introduction of school zone signs ? I live near a high school – no incidents within the zone, but a nasty one just outside the zone when a student ran onto the road.
And when are we going to have a review of placement of school safety zone signs ?
There is a zone on a major road in my area where the school is at least 1km away. A revenue-raiser if ever there was one.
Sydney Rd, west bound outside Balgowlah Boys. It’s not a flashing sign. If you’re in the kerb side lane or even the middle lane, you can’t see it until its about 5-10m in front of you so it’s really easy to miss. I’ve almost been caught out a number of times by it simply because I didn’t realise it was after 3pm when I drive past.
Pacific Highway in the centre of Bulahdelah. The 40 kph school zone is obstructed by the branches of a tree. I was lucky as the police officer coming toward me at the time was distracted and didn’t take notice that I was travelling at 50 kph. Once I realised I was in a school zone, I slowed down immediately but I truly didn’t know until I was almost through the zone and noticed the End of School Zone sign.
Talking of school zones, can anyone tell me why they don’t operate at standard times of day across Australia? Queensland has just announced that times will be standardised to 7–9 am and 2–4 pm, unless specifically signed. I think Canberra is 8am to 4pm. Surely the States could agree on a common standard!
I was booked in Woodbine on the Pacific Highway a few years ago. Travelling South on the Pacific Highway, the School sign was 90% concealed by tree limbs and the School concerned backed onto the Highway (absolutely no evidence of a school from the highway) and the school back fence was some 40 or so metres from the roadway across a very wide parkland/nature strip. To add insult to injury, I was travelling well under 50kmph and it was 9:27am… – and the camera car concerned was hidden under and behind large trees. Not Happy!
All school zones should have flashing amber lights that flash when the school zone is in operation. These should be solar-powered, so non-reliant on electricity from the grid. This should be the standard ACROSS AUSTRALIA. If only we had national standards on these policies!
some 4 years ago, I challenged a camera fine issued at a location where both the School Zone and the Speed Camera sign were obscured. Despite providing extensive photographic evidence of the obstruction (by large trees) and an aerial photograph of the site to the Minister and State Premier of the day, the fine was not withdrawn.
I would not be surprised if the situation still exists today.
I can understand school zones for Primary schools BUT for High schools I can not believe we think these youths are so dumb they can’t obey road rules, they operate phones and computers better than most Adults.
They wonder streets and shopping centre when not at shool so I consider High school zones are only Revenue raisers and traffic hazards. slow traffic flow is an addition costs to the economy.
I passionately remember the SA police setting up a radar trap in a school zone at Tailem Bend on the Prices Highway the day after an Adelaide Grand Prix. You drove an hour. at 110 km/h on the freway, then the speed limit went 90, 60, 25 in the space of 400 metres. They couldn’t write the tickets fast enough.
Truly a trap, but that was the law; and is is a school like any other. Really a case of stupid road building.
Emu Plains (NSW) High School on Gt Western Highway.
When travelling west throught traffic lights at Old Bathurst Rd the road turns sllightly left.
The 40 flashing school zone lights immeadiately on the left are hidden somewhat by tree branches so that there is minimal warning time.
However the 40kmh sign on the right of the road is seen sooner than the flashing lights on the left due to the bend.
In my opinion the flashing sign should be moved across the road to the right hand side. Or on both sides if possible.